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Anonymous wrote:the boys in robotics seem to have much poorer social skills (and make inappropriate sexist jokes around girls-including my dd) than my dd athlete male friends...so maybe this is what females mean by not being accepted around male engineering students?

Absolutely this is the reality in high school and maybe in younger grades too. Some engineering (and physics let me not start there) classes are difficult for females to survive socially. Academically the women kick ass! This is the current reality.

There have been some really socially inappropriate things said and my dd reported it but apparently this kid has an iep for emotional issues so he has the right to make sexist derogatory comments per the school...tbh most of the girls are also on the spectrum as well in this group and a minority of the girls are social-so they will sink or swim

Most of the female engineering students are on the spectrum? I have a female freshman and this is not her experience. Do you have data to support this?

Yeah, that is total BS! My daughter is an engineer major and that's definately not the case.
She's about as far from that description as possible and so are most of her friends

OK well thats great to know, my DD wants to study engineering and in her ECs there is only one girl who is social, the other ones are definitely not (with her or anyone else), she doesn't mind as her friend group is not her EC group. I was concerned about making friends down the line in college.

Anonymous wrote:Folks interested in this should go read the older thread from last winter. I think it was called "engineering degree" or similar.

Here you go:

Engineering Degree

It was indeed one of the more lively and informational threads that tended to stay on topic which covered attrition, gender, and difficulty.

I'll repeat what I said in that thread as well as a few others: An engineering degree is hard. Weed-out is a thing. My degree (from the 80s from Big State U) had the same attrition rate as a PP who mentioned one -- a 1-in-3 completion rate for engineering. Thankfully, most of the others went on to graduate with a degree in something else. I think the rates have gotten a little better, but not by much (maybe in the 40-50% range, anecdotal and based on friends with kids in or recently completed). Here's a study from the American Association of Engineering Education which kind of backs that up (see pg 6 for degree within 4-years).

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Anonymous wrote:I was just speaking to a female engineering major who transferred out of VT after Freshman year and went on a mini tirade about her poor treatment as a female there. I was really surprised.

Most colleges are accepting more females than males (60/40) in recent years. It stands to reason that there are more females than males admitted to engineering programs. STEM admits for females have been steadily preferred and rising Consequently, it should not be surprising that certain treatment still exists, however unfortunate.

I can tell you almost certainly that Engineering programs are still admitting more males then females. They would love to reach equilibrium but its just not possible right now.

+100 can confirm from top ranked engineering, they cannot get above 30-40% females because so few apply

really? is it apply or are admitted?, my dd wants to do engineering, she s not an urm, will she have a hook just purely on her gender?

No it’s not a hook anymore. The ivy engineering program mine is in said the Engineering applicant ratio was “about the same” as admitted ratio. This school admits less than 5% of Engineering applicants, regular and early decision combined. À different ivy admits less than 3.5% for 2026 and 2027 according to reddit posts quoting that dean. Even if these programs have a 6% admit rate for females—so double—it is still much tougher admit rate than the arts&sciences programs at the same schools because the stats of the engineering applicant pool are always higher than the overall stats.

DP. I really think at this tier, it's about what the student brings to the college as well as statistical aspects. Mine (female) had engr awards but also had awards/portfolio in the arts, and this school particularly likes cross-disciplinary, multi-spike kids. And, dept strives for 50/50 male/female which is also helpful. It's the coming together of many facets, I think.

Can you give examples of colleges for e that are on this level? Are you talking about penn cmu mit Stanford type of schools ?

Like another PP said, not schools that don't emphasize crossover. I was thinking primarily Ivies (especially Brown/Yale/Dartmouth who prioritize arts, and Brown is close to 50/50) (but not Cornell, not sure about Columbia), Stanford. I think this kind of candidate would also stand out at the likes of Tufts, Lehigh, Lafayette, and those would have options for a multi-spike. Even Olin might be good with its emphasis on out-of-the-box creativity and links to Wellesley and Babson.
So, engineer girls, join Society of Women Engineers, rocket club/team, and/or robitics team, AND dig into the arts, especially something that might have crossover value. Metal-smithing? Sculpture? Digital design? Maybe set/light design or even just unrelated arts -- voice, theatre, film. Any creativity is good, and any way to quantify with awards, even better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the boys in robotics seem to have much poorer social skills (and make inappropriate sexist jokes around girls-including my dd) than my dd athlete male friends...so maybe this is what females mean by not being accepted around male engineering students?

Absolutely this is the reality in high school and maybe in younger grades too. Some engineering (and physics let me not start there) classes are difficult for females to survive socially. Academically the women kick ass! This is the current reality.

There have been some really socially inappropriate things said and my dd reported it but apparently this kid has an iep for emotional issues so he has the right to make sexist derogatory comments per the school...tbh most of the girls are also on the spectrum as well in this group and a minority of the girls are social-so they will sink or swim

Most of the female engineering students are on the spectrum? I have a female freshman and this is not her experience. Do you have data to support this?

Yeah, that is total BS! My daughter is an engineer major and that's definately not the case.
She's about as far from that description as possible and so are most of her friends

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Anonymous wrote:I highly recommend everyone ask for this info, as well as the average GPA of engineering grads.

+1. Most first engineering jobs ask for the GPA.

As well as most internships/Coops. Go below a 3.0 and it will be challenging to find an internship. Keeping it 3.5+ will open more doors. Those are the gateway points for many positions. Just my experience with my engineer major (just like other majors)

Sure sub 3.0 engineers will still have a great career ahead. Engineering is difficult major and it's still a good gpa. But you will have to search much harder to land that first job.

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Anonymous wrote:the boys in robotics seem to have much poorer social skills (and make inappropriate sexist jokes around girls-including my dd) than my dd athlete male friends...so maybe this is what females mean by not being accepted around male engineering students?

Nope, the robotics kids don’t make those comments and they are around girls in robotics. My athletic kids friends do.

this has not been our experience

Well, that has been our experience.

DP. Yeah, we all got that, but you can't assume your experience is universal. Your previous statement suggested an absolute. PP debunked that with her experience. No need to restate yours.

My kid in engineering HS program has also experienced some juvenile male behavior. A type of cyber bullying during covid. Mutual friends called the boys out, and it stopped thankfully. Seemed more related to immaturity than malice. She also knows some pretty nice guys, (but also not super mature). The girls in the program tend to be more mature, and they get together to study or in stem club and help each other out. Hoping mine will find some similar at college.

And you can’t assume yours is universal.

I didn't. Read my post.

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Anonymous wrote:Bonus if attrition is broken out by gender. At the VA Tech revisit, we specifically heard more females than males leave the program.

Based on DC's engineering classes taken in HS, would argue best to separate males and offer female only classes. Male maturity level and ego can be much for female classmates, so not surprised with PP's tibit about VATech.

As a female engineer, I find your post sexist. People need to work with each other in a cooperative way. Not separate them.

100% gone are the days of separation, unless the school is a women's college from the start. Engineering is a tough degree. Some schools will show freshman retention rates - both for the entire school and the degree. After that its not part of the data collected. Many schools have Women In Engineering (WIE) programs that are dedicated to promoting the role of women in the field of engineering.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the boys in robotics seem to have much poorer social skills (and make inappropriate sexist jokes around girls-including my dd) than my dd athlete male friends...so maybe this is what females mean by not being accepted around male engineering students?

Nope, the robotics kids don’t make those comments and they are around girls in robotics. My athletic kids friends do.

this has not been our experience

Well, that has been our experience.

DP. Yeah, we all got that, but you can't assume your experience is universal. Your previous statement suggested an absolute. PP debunked that with her experience. No need to restate yours.

My kid in engineering HS program has also experienced some juvenile male behavior. A type of cyber bullying during covid. Mutual friends called the boys out, and it stopped thankfully. Seemed more related to immaturity than malice. She also knows some pretty nice guys, (but also not super mature). The girls in the program tend to be more mature, and they get together to study or in stem club and help each other out. Hoping mine will find some similar at college.

And you can’t assume yours is universal.

Aren’t most engineering programs by nature weed outs? It’s so rigorous, and usually little room for electives in other disciplines. No way getting around it, either you’re up to the material or not. Mine was not and I’m really glad DC chose a school with a lot of other disciplines to transfer to. I have so much admiration for students who can succeed in engineering programs.

Though

DD at Penn. 40% female per data- thought it feels lower to her. No attrition in Freshman year.

Within engineering, how would you rank the degree of difficulty for each major (eg, electrical v mechanical).

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Anonymous wrote:I was just speaking to a female engineering major who transferred out of VT after Freshman year and went on a mini tirade about her poor treatment as a female there. I was really surprised.

Most colleges are accepting more females than males (60/40) in recent years. It stands to reason that there are more females than males admitted to engineering programs. STEM admits for females have been steadily preferred and rising Consequently, it should not be surprising that certain treatment still exists, however unfortunate.

I can tell you almost certainly that Engineering programs are still admitting more males then females. They would love to reach equilibrium but its just not possible right now.

+100 can confirm from top ranked engineering, they cannot get above 30-40% females because so few apply

really? is it apply or are admitted?, my dd wants to do engineering, she s not an urm, will she have a hook just purely on her gender?

No it’s not a hook anymore. The ivy engineering program mine is in said the Engineering applicant ratio was “about the same” as admitted ratio. This school admits less than 5% of Engineering applicants, regular and early decision combined. À different ivy admits less than 3.5% for 2026 and 2027 according to reddit posts quoting that dean. Even if these programs have a 6% admit rate for females—so double—it is still much tougher admit rate than the arts&sciences programs at the same schools because the stats of the engineering applicant pool are always higher than the overall stats.

DP. I really think at this tier, it's about what the student brings to the college as well as statistical aspects. Mine (female) had engr awards but also had awards/portfolio in the arts, and this school particularly likes cross-disciplinary, multi-spike kids. And, dept strives for 50/50 male/female which is also helpful. It's the coming together of many facets, I think.

Can you give examples of colleges for e that are on this level? Are you talking about penn cmu mit Stanford type of schools ?

Pp for top ranked engineering i meant within a top uni so as to have the liberal arts options &kids on campus too.
Stanford, penn, duke, jhu, columbia, northwestern, that type. not cornell only bc schools too separate; it functions as a large public with too many restrictions. Not mit because no liberal arts school within the uni.
It has been a great fit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just speaking to a female engineering major who transferred out of VT after Freshman year and went on a mini tirade about her poor treatment as a female there. I was really surprised.

Most colleges are accepting more females than males (60/40) in recent years. It stands to reason that there are more females than males admitted to engineering programs. STEM admits for females have been steadily preferred and rising Consequently, it should not be surprising that certain treatment still exists, however unfortunate.

I can tell you almost certainly that Engineering programs are still admitting more males then females. They would love to reach equilibrium but its just not possible right now.

+100 can confirm from top ranked engineering, they cannot get above 30-40% females because so few apply

Some are over 40. We combed through department stats because it can be misleading otherwise. Definitely found a few. (Thought Cooper Union looked balanced until we saw department breakdown). Olin is actually 50/50, pretty sure. It's tiny, though.

That’s fair and those are great schools just not on the list. She wanted ivy or T20 uni she could have the top liberal arts experience (which bring in top authors and artist speakers ) of private university, plus the engineering . Only those schools seemed to have the whole package. And 40 seems to be a ceiling right now, but she doesn’t care—she was the rare female in many high school endeavors

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just speaking to a female engineering major who transferred out of VT after Freshman year and went on a mini tirade about her poor treatment as a female there. I was really surprised.

Most colleges are accepting more females than males (60/40) in recent years. It stands to reason that there are more females than males admitted to engineering programs. STEM admits for females have been steadily preferred and rising Consequently, it should not be surprising that certain treatment still exists, however unfortunate.

I can tell you almost certainly that Engineering programs are still admitting more males then females. They would love to reach equilibrium but its just not possible right now.

+100 can confirm from top ranked engineering, they cannot get above 30-40% females because so few apply

really? is it apply or are admitted?, my dd wants to do engineering, she s not an urm, will she have a hook just purely on her gender?

No it’s not a hook anymore. The ivy engineering program mine is in said the Engineering applicant ratio was “about the same” as admitted ratio. This school admits less than 5% of Engineering applicants, regular and early decision combined. À different ivy admits less than 3.5% for 2026 and 2027 according to reddit posts quoting that dean. Even if these programs have a 6% admit rate for females—so double—it is still much tougher admit rate than the arts&sciences programs at the same schools because the stats of the engineering applicant pool are always higher than the overall stats.

DP. I really think at this tier, it's about what the student brings to the college as well as statistical aspects. Mine (female) had engr awards but also had awards/portfolio in the arts, and this school particularly likes cross-disciplinary, multi-spike kids. And, dept strives for 50/50 male/female which is also helpful. It's the coming together of many facets, I think.

Can you give examples of colleges for e that are on this level? Are you talking about penn cmu mit Stanford type of schools ?