Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You, PPs, seem to have husband's who either pitch in or at least appreciate you doing it all.

I do all the parenting and the housework myself. My husband does NOTHING. I don't mind. What I do mind, however, is his complete lack of understanding and appreciation of what it takes to raise a child.

For example, back when our daughter was in daycare, he didn’t understand the effort to get her ready in the mornings. He kept saying: "Just stop celebrating and take her to the daycare!"

I work part-time (lawyer) because he leaves at 5 a.m. and comes home in the evening, too tired to do anything.

To top it all, he is pressuring me to start earning significantly more, an amount approaching his salary. I currently earn 200k, he averages almost 1m. When I point out the child-related duties, his reply:"It's your fault, hire a nanny!"

You can imagine my resentment. I just hope that my daughter will not end up thinking that this setup is normal.

With all due respect, your household income is more than enough to outsource all domestic duties and then some.

Are you saying this as someone with a similar income who outsources all domestic duties?
Or maybe you are someone who does domestic work for a family with a similar income.

Or, most likely, you are someone who has never hired out all or most of your domestic work and has no experience with it, but imagines that there is a large market of highly competent domestic workers looking for employment, and they are very easy to find, hire, and manage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I appreciate your willingness acknowledge your blind spots. I would like to point out that there is a huge range of contributions - it's not that you have either a useless spouse or an equal partner. My DH is a great person. We've been married 25+ years, have 3 kids and I've always made more money than him (but we are still 'poors' by DCUM standards). I grew up with a lot of DV/addiction/etc. and DH is the opposite of all that. He really is the right person to help me break that generational cycle.

Yet, DH also suffers from ADHD/depression. I'm pretty much the opposite. It's not that he doesn't want to be a better partner but what comes so easily/thoughtlessly to me is hard for him. When his depression isn't well controlled, it's even worse. To top things off, two of our kids have ADHD/anxiety - of of which has other significant challenges. We have one NT kid. DH is also an only child so there wasn't anyone to share the load with when his parents were in failing health.

In the short run, I'm more than capable of handling a huge mental load on top of carrying all the other loads. Yet, even I have my limits and having operated well beyond those for a couple years, I find I no longer have the resiliency/capacity that I did before. Yes, it's easier now that the kids are older teens/young adults and we don't have 3-5 appointments each week. But, that doesn't mean I can bounce back to the person I used to be.

I will also note that if we had more disposable HHI, things would be a lot different. I'd LOVE to plan a vacation, especially one where I'm not also the cruise director. Financially, we continue to be stretched too tightly. We deferred fully contributing to our retirement to pay for medical services and now 2 of our kids are in college. We've saved enough to pay for 2 years of college for each of them and they work PT but who doesn't want to give there kids some $$ every now and then? Disposable income could make a huge difference.

I feel like I do a lot but my husband isn't a total dead weight - and I don't think we ever really appreciate what the other does enough. For example, once we were out on a dinner date soon before our middle kid was ready to start kindergarten and he said something like - do we have to register him or anything? And I about lost my mind like - yes, and I did that months ago - must be nice to not have to think about anything! But, then he said - come on, I do stuff, do you even know what day our trash gets picked up? (And I didn't). So I remember think about that a lot when I am getting frustrated!

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

I make 3x what my DH does and I carry 90+% of the mental load. My job is much more demanding than his and yes, I'm bothered by owning the mental load. It's a lot (too much) for one person.

If you think the mental load for a single adult is comparable to the one for a family with three kids, you are nuts.

I’m very detail oriented and my husband is big picture oriented. I handle the day to day organizing and he handles our finances, vacation planning and anything else that is a few weeks out. He’s very involved in the day to day, just not planning it. I do the regular grocery shopping, he does the big Costco runs. We both work and there is a lot of chaos but it works helped by the fact that we are both pretty low maintenance and go with the flow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

To me the things you listed are a small and relatively straightforward part of what I consider the mental load of running a family. Staying on top of the laundry so that the soccer jersey is always clean and findable is not fun but you can set up a system. For me the killers are the things that pop up that are both important and urgent and those seem to fall to mom. For example, both my kids see specialists regularly now, which is a pain, but the need for those doctors came out significant situations so I had to drop everything and finding those specialists and coordinate first possible appointments - super stressful and a huge amount of time. Figuring out how to rearrange everything when a child is sick or child care falls through. Medical device breaks and you have to drop everything to get that figured out. I know not everyone has as much of this stuff as we do but everyone has it. Even if it’s just oh I need whatever thing for school tomorrow- who is going to figure that out. That stuff is frustrating.

Sorry for your medical issues. I read the OP thinking her family must not have anyone with medical conditions. I have a family member with probably 12 specialists who was waiting for blood work from 3 different doctors this week, plus multiple appointments, devices, medications, etc. The scheduling and number of claims and amount of medical information to keep track of is a lot and it's a ton of time to keep up with it.

Anonymous wrote:This is OP and I don’t mean to be insensitive or tone deaf. Having a useless spouse sounds like a unique kind of hell, so definitely am not including those pairings in my original premise. It is a lot to keep track of, but it aligns with my personality and strengths, so I find it easy enough.

My husband is happy to take care of household maintenance and is quite handy, but I am definitely the director. He does stay on top of the car (except for cleaning it out, which I lead!) and handles the random financial charges like taxes, random fees etc - I handle the day-to-day, monthly bills and debt servicing and investments.

I think overall a happy marriage, like a happy business partnership (which to a large extent a marriage is), plays to its participants strengths and is grounded in respect and appreciation. Thanks for checking me on my blind spots.

This is one of the most respectful and open exchanges I’ve seen on DCUM. Thanks for restoring my faith!

This is OP and I don’t mean to be insensitive or tone deaf. Having a useless spouse sounds like a unique kind of hell, so definitely am not including those pairings in my original premise. It is a lot to keep track of, but it aligns with my personality and strengths, so I find it easy enough.

My husband is happy to take care of household maintenance and is quite handy, but I am definitely the director. He does stay on top of the car (except for cleaning it out, which I lead!) and handles the random financial charges like taxes, random fees etc - I handle the day-to-day, monthly bills and debt servicing and investments.

I think overall a happy marriage, like a happy business partnership (which to a large extent a marriage is), plays to its participants strengths and is grounded in respect and appreciation. Thanks for checking me on my blind spots.

Anonymous wrote:
You, PPs, seem to have husband's who either pitch in or at least appreciate you doing it all.

I do all the parenting and the housework myself. My husband does NOTHING. I don't mind. What I do mind, however, is his complete lack of understanding and appreciation of what it takes to raise a child.

For example, back when our daughter was in daycare, he didn’t understand the effort to get her ready in the mornings. He kept saying: "Just stop celebrating and take her to the daycare!"

I work part-time (lawyer) because he leaves at 5 a.m. and comes home in the evening, too tired to do anything.

To top it all, he is pressuring me to start earning significantly more, an amount approaching his salary. I currently earn 200k, he averages almost 1m. When I point out the child-related duties, his reply:"It's your fault, hire a nanny!"

You can imagine my resentment. I just hope that my daughter will not end up thinking that this setup is normal.

With all due respect, your household income is more than enough to outsource all domestic duties and then some.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

It is not the mental load itself that is intolerable. It is living with another adult day in and day out who isn't being a partner, but rather a mooch, and who feels like an additional child. And then you lose attraction for this man-child because he seems so inept/weak/not supportive. Then he becomes resentful too. Some marriages feel this way. Yours does not because your partner pitches in. Congrats.

Seconded. I was like yeah OP wake up, that guy does a lot.

Far different from my ex on the couch whining but doing almost nothing but causing drama.

I think a big part of this perpetual conflict is the recognition of the load.

It works as long as both partners are aware of and appreciate what the other is doing. Problems set in when one side doesn't see or try to compensate for the fact that things are unbalanced.

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

To me the things you listed are a small and relatively straightforward part of what I consider the mental load of running a family. Staying on top of the laundry so that the soccer jersey is always clean and findable is not fun but you can set up a system. For me the killers are the things that pop up that are both important and urgent and those seem to fall to mom. For example, both my kids see specialists regularly now, which is a pain, but the need for those doctors came out significant situations so I had to drop everything and finding those specialists and coordinate first possible appointments - super stressful and a huge amount of time. Figuring out how to rearrange everything when a child is sick or child care falls through. Medical device breaks and you have to drop everything to get that figured out. I know not everyone has as much of this stuff as we do but everyone has it. Even if it’s just oh I need whatever thing for school tomorrow- who is going to figure that out. That stuff is frustrating.