Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:49
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.
+1,000
I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.
I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.
I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.
I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.
There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.
Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.
Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.
Look PP, there’s nothing inherently wrong with your post. But what are you expecting? You are on a DMV board with a strong representation from NYC and NE. Many of the moms and dads on these boards went to ivy or T20. They are UMC to wealthy professionals and they want the same or similar path for their kids. So, yes this board discussion skews in that direction. I actually think this board has become less ivy focused than it was 6 years ago. So if you think the conversations are one dimensional now, it was T50 back then. It was ivy or bust.
No, there is nothing wrong with the other colleges in America. A good education can be had in most places.
I DO have a problem with the parents who come on this board feigning real or imaged ignorance claiming ‘my DC only gets B’s and they have a 1200, Where oh where can they go??!!’ Please the college in the next city or county or state, or any of the other 2000 colleges in America, don’t be so helpless.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:47
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Radford
Yes! This is where this normal to average
FCPS graduate from the late 80s went to college. I was a far better college than high school student. Go, Highlanders!
Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:45
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:That lengthy sensible post is very wrong about one thing, though. The PP guesses about 10% of college students attend T50 schools. It’s actually under 5%. And under one half of one percent attend T10 schools. And remember that only about 60% of high school seniors go to college. The DMV is full of parents who are quite properly proud of their 95th percentile children, who correctly perceive that those children are far above average, but who simply don’t understand the math.
Further, 13.5 million undergraduates are in public colleges, only 5 million in privates. The ones at publics are mostly not at flagships. They're at the Middle Tennessee State Universities and UMass Lowells of the world. Even among privates, my guess is that colleges with a strong religious tradition predominate - think Eastern Mennonite or Azusa Pacific, not Harvard or even Wake Forest.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:30
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
That lengthy sensible post is very wrong about one thing, though. The PP guesses about 10% of college students attend T50 schools. It’s actually under 5%. And under one half of one percent attend T10 schools. And remember that only about 60% of high school seniors go to college. The DMV is full of parents who are quite properly proud of their 95th percentile children, who correctly perceive that those children are far above average, but who simply don’t understand the math.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:19
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.
+1,000
I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.
I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.
I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.
I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.
There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.
Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.
Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.
This is a very long post so not sure it will get the read it deserves, but this board is SOOO CRAZY with the college acceptances. There are so many close by schools that take more average or slightly below average students - and offer them merit aide - and give them good educations/networks. This top 50 or bust plus take out every loan possible and pay 80K per year mentality is insanity.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 15:14
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
I love that the poster above actually listed Northern Michigan. My daughter applied and got in there, but has made the decision that it is just too far from home. That said, it seems like a nice place to spend 4 years.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 13:09
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:A ton of schools. Some suggestions Bates, Denison, Wilamette, Fordham, Syracuse, University of Vermont, WPI, Boulder, University of Denver, SMU, TCU, University of Oregon, Oregon State, University of Tennessee, University of Kansas, Arizona State, Gonzaga, Franklin & Marshall, Elon, Marist, College of Charleston
Admissions rate at Bates is under 14%, and the average UW GPA is 3.88 for admitted students. Seems like a big reach for an average student, even TO.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:30
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are lots of in state colleges for normal students OP:
Radford, Longwood, ODU, VCU, Mary Baldwin, Roanoke, Hollins, Randolph Macon, St Marys in MD, Frostburg, Towson, UMBC.
Some of these are for a C student, not an A/B student with 8 AP classes.
What AP’s were they, OP?
Oops. I meant to post this on a different thread.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:27
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I work at the University of Missouri. Admissions are guaranteed for 24 ACT / 1160 SAT and a 2.0+ GPA. This is the state flagship; other state schools are even easier. It's crazy to me as a native New Yorker that so many locals send their talented, accomplished kids to Mizzou. But then they are having a good time, graduating without debt and still getting into law and med school, so maybe I am the crazy one. Still trying to figure that out.
Weird that ppl send their kids here given the peer group.
I have no knowledge of Mizzou but why can't people just understand that kids can have accomplishments, be successful, go to grad schools, make money . . . whatever your definition of success is . . . from any school. I get that some may provide some intangibles (networks or pathways to super selective careers). But that is the exception, not the rule. Yes, even for kids at Mizzou.
I think it has to do with the parents' and peer families' paths to success. In the DMV, at least in Upper NW and Bethesda/CC, it seems like 75%+ of parents went to a T25 school, so there is (1) a natural tendency for them to assume the same path for their offspring (and why not), and (2), no experience with any other way since everyone in their social and professional circles all did it the same way. If given the choice, of course everyone would go T25, but without that choice (or even the possibility that that path may not be available) it seems that people panic and become even more certain that T25 is the ONLY option, because it worked for them and everyone they deem to be "successful." t is not, obviously. Successful people come from everywhere (and, arguably, the most interesting successful people did not come from T25, but that's my bias showing). But how would someone know this if their entire life was within a certain mold.
So, in a way, you're doing your kids a disservice if you don't tell them from an early age that it is the person, not the place. That failure is a driver, not an end. That hard work and sacrifice is necessary for success and fulfillment. That a diploma doesn't guarantee anything.
Brag about who your kid is, not where they go. But that's admittedly hard when the rest of the circle only views their path as the correct one.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:24
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:There are lots of in state colleges for normal students OP:
Radford, Longwood, ODU, VCU, Mary Baldwin, Roanoke, Hollins, Randolph Macon, St Marys in MD, Frostburg, Towson, UMBC.
Some of these are for a C student, not an A/B student with 8 AP classes.
What AP’s were they, OP?
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:18
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I work at the University of Missouri. Admissions are guaranteed for 24 ACT / 1160 SAT and a 2.0+ GPA. This is the state flagship; other state schools are even easier. It's crazy to me as a native New Yorker that so many locals send their talented, accomplished kids to Mizzou. But then they are having a good time, graduating without debt and still getting into law and med school, so maybe I am the crazy one. Still trying to figure that out.
Weird that ppl send their kids here given the peer group.
I have no knowledge of Mizzou but why can't people just understand that kids can have accomplishments, be successful, go to grad schools, make money . . . whatever your definition of success is . . . from any school. I get that some may provide some intangibles (networks or pathways to super selective careers). But that is the exception, not the rule. Yes, even for kids at Mizzou.
It’s specific to your family, your values, and what your kid needs.
In my circle, it’s not an option for most kids that I personally know.
But it still could be a good option for others esp those depending on $$$.
LBH, the "it's not an option" is because it's not ranked highly and nothing more. And that's fine. But don't hide it behind "family values."
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:18
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A ton of schools. Some suggestions Bates, Denison, Wilamette, Fordham, Syracuse, University of Vermont, WPI, Boulder, University of Denver, SMU, TCU, University of Oregon, Oregon State, University of Tennessee, University of Kansas, Arizona State, Gonzaga, Franklin & Marshall, Elon, Marist, College of Charleston
Some of these are very ambitious for OP's stats
OP didn't actually share stats beyond saying A and B student. "Average" SAT scores could mean anywhere between 1000-1300 depending on who you're comparing to...at my poor inner city high school "average SAT score" would have been 1000ish. At an elite private high school "average SAT" could be 1300+.
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:15
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:If everything is so hard to get into now, where do regular kids go, the ones with As and Bs, not all APs, average SAT scores...?
When you say average SAT score are you talking 50th percentile score which would be in the 1050 range or are you talking like 75 percentile which would be about 1200ish? Big difference.
If 1050 range:
Old Dominion
Marymount
Frostburg St
Coastal Carolina
Portland State U
Northern Michigan
Northern Illinois
Greensboro College in NC
Augsburg U in MN
If 1200 range a lot more options open up. Some I'd consider but just really depends what type of school you're looking for and what location you like:
George Mason
James Madison
Radford
College of Charleston
Eckerd College in FL
U of Kentucky
Depaul in Chicago
IUPUI
U of Arizona
Michigan State
San Diego State
U of Oregon
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:09
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Apply ED if you can….
SMU
Chapman
U-Miami (ED)
Boulder
Indiana
Cal poly
Elon
Wake (ED)
Tulane (ED)
Santa Clara
Not getting into Wake, Miami or Tulane with average rigor and grades, ED or not. You all are seriously out of touch.
At our private you are….
You likely go to a big 3 or equivalent then . . .different schools have different grading
Anonymous
03/07/2024 12:06
Subject: Where do normal kids go to college?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A ton of schools. Some suggestions Bates, Denison, Wilamette, Fordham, Syracuse, University of Vermont, WPI, Boulder, University of Denver, SMU, TCU, University of Oregon, Oregon State, University of Tennessee, University of Kansas, Arizona State, Gonzaga, Franklin & Marshall, Elon, Marist, College of Charleston
Some of these are very ambitious for OP's stats
ED? Especially for school track demonstrated interest?
The parent needs to put together a spreadsheet, pronto, and figure out minimum GPA thresholds and then visit those where it would make a difference