Anonymous
02/27/2024 18:01
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
They are studying the exposures. They only discovered UFPs recently. For now, they know it’s worse than exposure to diesel. And for diesel they know that indeed people have had increased morbidity and mortality for decades due to occupational hazards or living next to the highway.
“In a meta-analysis of exposure to diesel exhaust and lung cancer occurrence in three occupational studies, the identified dose-response relationship showed that occupational exposure to 1 μg EC/m3 during a 45 year work life would cause 17 excess lung cancers per 10,000 exposed using the EC content of diesel exhaust as metric [80]. Another recent analysis of 14 case-control studies estimated exposure to diesel exhaust particles using job-exposure matrices. In this study, occupational exposure to 1 μg EC/m3 during a 45 year work life would cause 4 excess lung cancers per 10,000 exposed using the EC content of diesel exhaust as metric.”
I would not take the chance. If my work required the exposure, I would wear a mask (and they do — earmuffs and masks and goggles). Just like I wouldn’t buy a house next to the highway, I wouldn’t buy one under the flight path. How is that confusing?
“In a meta-analysis of exposure to diesel exhaust and lung cancer occurrence in three occupational studies, the identified dose-response relationship showed that occupational exposure to 1 μg EC/m3 during a 45 year work life would cause 17 excess lung cancers per 10,000 exposed using the EC content of diesel exhaust as metric [80]. Another recent analysis of 14 case-control studies estimated exposure to diesel exhaust particles using job-exposure matrices. In this study, occupational exposure to 1 μg EC/m3 during a 45 year work life would cause 4 excess lung cancers per 10,000 exposed using the EC content of diesel exhaust as metric.”
I would not take the chance. If my work required the exposure, I would wear a mask (and they do — earmuffs and masks and goggles). Just like I wouldn’t buy a house next to the highway, I wouldn’t buy one under the flight path. How is that confusing?
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:55
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
How is it that people can work for years, even decades, on the ramps at airports, loading baggage, working on aircraft, directing planes around, etc, and be MUCH more exposed to jet exhaust than people like you - yet we never seem to hear about them suffering any kind of the maladies that you describe from these “articles” you (didn’t) cite.
If jet exhaust were as dangerous as you suggest, wouldn’t tens of thousands of airport workers be dying every year? They’re getting many orders of magnitude more exposure than you are with them flying 1,000+ feet overhead. They’re right next to the engines. By your risk projections, they should be dead within weeks, if not days.
How do you explain that they’re able to survive somehow after being exposed to levels of pollution millions of times higher than that which you claim causes life threatening health complications?
Seems like there’s only two possible explanations:
1) airport workers are super-humans, or perhaps they simply don’t breathe. Or maybe it’s witchcraft?
Or
2) you and your articles are vastly exaggerating the dangers, and you have zero credibility because of that.
Which is it, do you suppose?
What are you talking about? There are studies and union fights galore about their health and increased incidence of cancer.
Except thousands of them aren’t dying each year. Which is what we’d be experiencing if the claims of the PP were true.
Is there a long term health hazard to working around running jet engines for years or decades? Probably. I’m sure there is. You’re breathing jet exhaust 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week, probably ~50 weeks a year. I’m sure that has some negative health affects.
But it’s offensive that people who DON’T work next to running jet engines 40 hours a week and merely live near an airport have the gall to claim that they are more at-risk than the people who work next to planes all day.
It’s disgusting privilege on display.
They wear PPE. They also don’t stand under planes while they are on ascent and descent. When did you last see a bunch of families running on the piste behind the jet? I have no idea what your point is.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:51
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
I think you are misreading the studies. It isn’t sudden death; it’s the increased morbidity over decades and probably some increase in mortality. But, difficult to ascribe to any one cause with things like: dementia, autoimmune diseases, cancers, anxiety, cardiovascular and respiratory. None of these are easy to pin down but when they did risk assessments, they are finding a significantly increased risk.
This is a new field of research, the chance of a doctor linking your dementia to UFPs is unlikely. Heck, we are still building condos on top of gas stations, and ignored asbestos and radon for decades.
This is a new field of research, the chance of a doctor linking your dementia to UFPs is unlikely. Heck, we are still building condos on top of gas stations, and ignored asbestos and radon for decades.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:45
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
How is it that people can work for years, even decades, on the ramps at airports, loading baggage, working on aircraft, directing planes around, etc, and be MUCH more exposed to jet exhaust than people like you - yet we never seem to hear about them suffering any kind of the maladies that you describe from these “articles” you (didn’t) cite.
If jet exhaust were as dangerous as you suggest, wouldn’t tens of thousands of airport workers be dying every year? They’re getting many orders of magnitude more exposure than you are with them flying 1,000+ feet overhead. They’re right next to the engines. By your risk projections, they should be dead within weeks, if not days.
How do you explain that they’re able to survive somehow after being exposed to levels of pollution millions of times higher than that which you claim causes life threatening health complications?
Seems like there’s only two possible explanations:
1) airport workers are super-humans, or perhaps they simply don’t breathe. Or maybe it’s witchcraft?
Or
2) you and your articles are vastly exaggerating the dangers, and you have zero credibility because of that.
Which is it, do you suppose?
What are you talking about? There are studies and union fights galore about their health and increased incidence of cancer.
Except thousands of them aren’t dying each year. Which is what we’d be experiencing if the claims of the PP were true.
Is there a long term health hazard to working around running jet engines for years or decades? Probably. I’m sure there is. You’re breathing jet exhaust 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week, probably ~50 weeks a year. I’m sure that has some negative health affects.
But it’s offensive that people who DON’T work next to running jet engines 40 hours a week and merely live near an airport have the gall to claim that they are more at-risk than the people who work next to planes all day.
It’s disgusting privilege on display.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:36
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
How is it that people can work for years, even decades, on the ramps at airports, loading baggage, working on aircraft, directing planes around, etc, and be MUCH more exposed to jet exhaust than people like you - yet we never seem to hear about them suffering any kind of the maladies that you describe from these “articles” you (didn’t) cite.
If jet exhaust were as dangerous as you suggest, wouldn’t tens of thousands of airport workers be dying every year? They’re getting many orders of magnitude more exposure than you are with them flying 1,000+ feet overhead. They’re right next to the engines. By your risk projections, they should be dead within weeks, if not days.
How do you explain that they’re able to survive somehow after being exposed to levels of pollution millions of times higher than that which you claim causes life threatening health complications?
Seems like there’s only two possible explanations:
1) airport workers are super-humans, or perhaps they simply don’t breathe. Or maybe it’s witchcraft?
Or
2) you and your articles are vastly exaggerating the dangers, and you have zero credibility because of that.
Which is it, do you suppose?
What are you talking about? There are studies and union fights galore about their health and increased incidence of cancer.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:35
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
The regional politics mean that MD and VA have a much greater voice in this and DC generally is less well organized to move the flight path. So we’ve been ending up with more flights.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 17:33
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
UFPs are a relatively new finding linked to the modern jet fuel and higher temps of burning plus more flights. Chronic disease take years to develop. Studies so far suggest a problem. Also remember that they are burning that fuel much more over your house if you are near enough for the take off and landing path and that these people wear PPE and get to go home. And you live there.
I wouldn’t take the risk, you’d have to pay me to buy under a flight path. It’s also very inconvenient plus I’d be worried about my property values once there are more studies and this is more widely known.
You’ve seen the movie about the PFOAS and yet people aren’t freaking out about the forever chemicals. They should, but no one freaks out about chronic disease because it takes a long time.
I wouldn’t take the risk, you’d have to pay me to buy under a flight path. It’s also very inconvenient plus I’d be worried about my property values once there are more studies and this is more widely known.
You’ve seen the movie about the PFOAS and yet people aren’t freaking out about the forever chemicals. They should, but no one freaks out about chronic disease because it takes a long time.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 16:07
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
How is it that people can work for years, even decades, on the ramps at airports, loading baggage, working on aircraft, directing planes around, etc, and be MUCH more exposed to jet exhaust than people like you - yet we never seem to hear about them suffering any kind of the maladies that you describe from these “articles” you (didn’t) cite.
If jet exhaust were as dangerous as you suggest, wouldn’t tens of thousands of airport workers be dying every year? They’re getting many orders of magnitude more exposure than you are with them flying 1,000+ feet overhead. They’re right next to the engines. By your risk projections, they should be dead within weeks, if not days.
How do you explain that they’re able to survive somehow after being exposed to levels of pollution millions of times higher than that which you claim causes life threatening health complications?
Seems like there’s only two possible explanations:
1) airport workers are super-humans, or perhaps they simply don’t breathe. Or maybe it’s witchcraft?
Or
2) you and your articles are vastly exaggerating the dangers, and you have zero credibility because of that.
Which is it, do you suppose?
Anonymous
02/27/2024 14:05
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
The presentation upstream is harrowing. 12% increase in just malignant brain cancers under the flight path.
Also the pollution as it affects people below is quite straight and narrow (not dispersed). It’s because the particles are so tiny they get pushed down hard by the wings or whatever (there are several articles on the exact physics of this).
This will be unpopular but they mention haze. I really noticed a grimness to the Palisades in the last few years and thought it’s just a projection because some of these great restaurants are gone and the Safeway is gone but not think it wasn’t grimness per se but objective pollution and grimy-ness
Also the pollution as it affects people below is quite straight and narrow (not dispersed). It’s because the particles are so tiny they get pushed down hard by the wings or whatever (there are several articles on the exact physics of this).
This will be unpopular but they mention haze. I really noticed a grimness to the Palisades in the last few years and thought it’s just a projection because some of these great restaurants are gone and the Safeway is gone but not think it wasn’t grimness per se but objective pollution and grimy-ness
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:49
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
Wouldn't it be far wiser to immediately sell and move rather than the futility of complaining for years on end while your family sucks down the particles?
I agree. It took the Reservoir Rd guy a while to sell tbh and he didn’t make money in the hottest market ever. It’s an architect renovated house too with the top of line everything, soundproofing, window inserts. Nothing helped and they just moved
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:46
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
Can you define under a flight path? I am assuming if the plane is over your house, their particles don't actually fall on your house. The wind and atmosphere carry them much further, presumably miles away?
It’s under the flight path, not miles around. It’s concentrated and it’s 10 miles w/n the airport up and down under the flight path and the worst where flights are at 3,000 or less which is the river neighborhoods in DC.
Here’s a great presentation. This is all a relatively new science, but seems unequivocal. The only people immune to both the science and the noise are the real estate agents.
https://www.uecna.eu/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/UECNA-UFP-presentation.pdf
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:41
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
I find this commentary abhorrent. I’m sure you think the DMV low end real estate agenting is superior to the European Space Agency.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:37
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Roberto Vitori. Former European astronaut. Lived in Georgetown. Filed 6,852 complaints about aircraft noise in one year. 18 per day, everyday, for an entire year.
He’s an Astronaut.
Let that sink in.
He's way out there. Total galaxy brain.
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:20
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
Wouldn't it be far wiser to immediately sell and move rather than the futility of complaining for years on end while your family sucks down the particles?
Anonymous
02/27/2024 13:19
Subject: Which one of you was this? 78% of noise complaints lodged against Reagan Airport were made by one household!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember the person who constantly posted about airplane noise on the Real Estate forum? Maybe they are represented in those statistics.
Maybe you should reread that forum or did the brain damage from the jet fuel micro particles get to you already?
Do you think the particles fall straight down? I'm assuming those particles travel long distances before hitting the ground.
I don’t think anything. I read the science and it says these particles are so dangerous because they are so tiny and pushed down by the forces that have to do with how the jets fly straight into your lungs and organs; the issue is that they are too tiny and pushed down too fast to be addressable in any meaningful way. The articles say you are better off standing in the middle of a highway the whole day and breathing the fumes than living under a flight path.
It’s all laid out if you search for it, including yes on this website. I honestly don’t understand the gaslighting and vitriol of the people who claim the planes aren’t flying over these few neighborhoods in DC low and every minute or so. I understand that your personal risk tolerance is way higher and your personal comfort bar too; but don’t get why you feel the need to so aggressively call everyone else crazy etc? I mean these people protesting the flight paths are objectively right.
Can you define under a flight path? I am assuming if the plane is over your house, their particles don't actually fall on your house. The wind and atmosphere carry them much further, presumably miles away?