Anonymous wrote:Idk about meaner, but more critical of everything openly, like someone's sweater, someone's walk, their height...It's not the old making fun of so much as "I don't like your sweater", "you are very short", stated as a fact. Zero filter and more appearance-aware due to social media. I see it being very paralyzing and kids being afraid of everything being noticed and commented on.

Yup 100% this

No longer in the DMV, but I swore there was something in the water there. Something rancid that made so many of the kids bullies. Our oldest was the same way as yours, OP, and still got bullied for not having the most recent phone, or name-brand coat, or whatever. Our younger kid would throw up before leaving for school -- the bullying took a very dark turn. We moved and our kids became much more relaxed, and happy. They gained real friendships that weren't based on financial status or things like that.

I'm still quietly haunted by being a NOVA parent, to be honest. I still find myself waiting for the shoe to drop even now, for my kid to be bullied. I took our youngest to a school event and other kids were walking past saying "hi, [name]!" and smiling and waving. It made me feel emotional, although I didn't show it.

I'm still getting used to other kids being nice kids, and it's been some years now.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, kids are meaner now. It's part of the reason teachers are leaving education. There are no consequences for bullying, even in Elementary school. The bullies get bolder and the kids who were bullied also get meaner because the adults didn't protect them. Thank goodness there are more options for parents to get their kids out of public schools these days.

Who took away the meaningful punishment is schools? (hint: it was not the republicans).

I've been a teacher for 15 years. At the high school level, kids are in my opinion more socially aware and are more tolerant to differences, and so I think they are nicer. At the middle school levels, on the other hand, same ol as$%%%. That age range is just immaturity and unequipped with social grace because of all the hormones or something.

Yes, kids are meaner now. It's part of the reason teachers are leaving education. There are no consequences for bullying, even in Elementary school. The bullies get bolder and the kids who were bullied also get meaner because the adults didn't protect them. Thank goodness there are more options for parents to get their kids out of public schools these days.

My observation is that kids will have to compromise themselves in some form or fashion (kindness, drinking/drugs, sexual activity, rule breaking, etc) in order to maintain their status in the popular group at school. PP was right about the Regina Georges and their minions. We’re in the era of normalized narcissism thanks to social media. I don’t think anyone should want their kid in the “popular” group.

Talk to your kids about taking photos/videos of ppl without their consent and then sharing them. I have a fire under my ass about that behavior because it’s been so normalized but is such an invasion of privacy and lack of appropriate boundaries. I just got all up in my 14 year olds business about this very thing. So inappropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

This does not happen in public school. At all. Which gets to the previous point of if you go to a private school don't complain about people being jerks and aware of status and hierarchy. Hello. Life choices.

That's a really odd conclusion to draw from my comment. Particularly because in public multiple elementary schools feed a centrally located middle school so it would make sense the parents hang out.

Whereas most private schools are K-8 or K-12. I know this because I went to private school and my daughter goes to public school in an extremely large district.

My kids are at a very large public: several middle schools feed into it. I know a few parents from elementary and middle school, but by now kid friendships have completely shifted, and it's more like hi in passing at a concert or sports event, there is no hanging out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

This does not happen in public school. At all. Which gets to the previous point of if you go to a private school don't complain about people being jerks and aware of status and hierarchy. Hello. Life choices.

That's a really odd conclusion to draw from my comment. Particularly because in public multiple elementary schools feed a centrally located middle school so it would make sense the parents hang out.

Whereas most private schools are K-8 or K-12. I know this because I went to private school and my daughter goes to public school in an extremely large district.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

This does not happen in public school. At all. Which gets to the previous point of if you go to a private school don't complain about people being jerks and aware of status and hierarchy. Hello. Life choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

People say things like this and it's such a head scratcher to me. If you find yourself in this type of environment as an adult with free will and maturity on your side, time to re-evaluate your own life choices.

I mean my biggest interaction with these types is the end of year class party. Not exactly something I'm whining about when it's only a couple of hours easy to survive as an adult.

You have figured out all this about them from a couple of hours at a class party?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

Yup. Completely agree with this assessment

That’s how I found one of my closest male friends in HS. He was stereotypical popular, multi sport athlete, good looking, smart, upper middle class family. He started pulling away from them junior year and joined the trivia team and a school play and his overall demeanor became a lot more relaxed and happy and not as aggressive and try hard.

I also think there’s a lot of truth to the fact that the LGBT, nerdy, overweight, ASD kids etc. aren’t appropriate targets anymore as they might have been in our day, so the popular kids just turn on each other even more.

It seems like there are 2 camps here: kids are MUCH meaner and kids are nicer - with very few people saying things are the same.

I think kids are kinder. What my DD and her friends say is bullying just wouldn't have been in my day, wouldn't have registered at all. I wonder if it's because at her school they have to turn their phones in at the beginning of the day or maybe their anti bully policies are actually enforced and work. There are groups of friends and some snobbery about clothes etc, but all small fries compared to my HS. This is a very wealthy private school too, so it has the capacity to be worse. Maybe the school selects for empathy and kindness?

Idk about meaner, but more critical of everything openly, like someone's sweater, someone's walk, their height...It's not the old making fun of so much as "I don't like your sweater", "you are very short", stated as a fact. Zero filter and more appearance-aware due to social media. I see it being very paralyzing and kids being afraid of everything being noticed and commented on.

I think kids are generally nicer. There are definitely mean kids out there but not quite the level as the 80s and 90s.