Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread, but I have a difficult sibling who I would like to maintain a relationship with but also need some boundaries. Texting is your friend. You do not need to respond immediately (or ever if the text is rude). Phone calls can go straight to VM and be dealt with when you feel like it.

Might I suggest email instead? The hoarder in my life has some OCDPD qualities and would text over and over if I did not respond right away. You should not have to silence your texts. Emails are quieter. You check when you are in the mood. You also have a written record that's easier to print out if the person flips out and says she never promised to move the stuff.

Yes, whether text or email, better to have as much in writing as possible. And include other siblings, if any.

I had to take a relative like this to court because of an estate/trust matter. She tried to tell the judge that I was lying and that she had never said certain things, but I had printouts of months of emails and texts in which she had made the statements she claimed were lies on my part. Bonus, the judge got to see how mean-spirited and nasty she could be in the texts and emails, in addition to the dishonest actions she was actually in court for.

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread, but I have a difficult sibling who I would like to maintain a relationship with but also need some boundaries. Texting is your friend. You do not need to respond immediately (or ever if the text is rude). Phone calls can go straight to VM and be dealt with when you feel like it.

Might I suggest email instead? The hoarder in my life has some OCDPD qualities and would text over and over if I did not respond right away. You should not have to silence your texts. Emails are quieter. You check when you are in the mood. You also have a written record that's easier to print out if the person flips out and says she never promised to move the stuff.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have a difficult sibling who I would like to maintain a relationship with but also need some boundaries. Texting is your friend. You do not need to respond immediately (or ever if the text is rude). Phone calls can go straight to VM and be dealt with when you feel like it.

If you rent the storage space, you are legally on the hook for it. I'd be careful about assuming a clean "you take over the space or they will take possession of the storage space." You don't want anything adverse on your financial records from this.

I actually think renting a storage space/pod to paying movers to pack it all makes sense for the house goal. Assuming you have POA….

State to sibling in writing:
I will pay for movers (as your able)
I will pay for storage for 30 days 100%, next 30 75% (or whatever % your able)
Sibling must take over storage after first term.

While I know it’s a waste of time and money, it gets toward the goal and puts responsibility on sibling, who can decide to act or not.

While you’ll surely get yelled at, it’s not you in the power struggle of the stuff.

Good luck!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

Sorry for the situation OP. Of course you care. Good advice here. And, good luck.

If you don’t own the house yourself outright, no, you cannot do anything legally to force the sale. Even if you are co-inheritors of your parents’ home, you can’t force the sale prior to your parents’ deaths. Even after they die, you would need to take costly legal action to force the sale and it probably would cost you more than just paying for upkeep and taxes for a decade or more.

09:05 beat me to it. The day the junk haulers come is the day that you need to have the locks changed on the clean and empty house.

I don't think you should rent a pod and pay for stuff to be moved; I think you should set a deadline by which your sibling can rent the pod and have the stuff moved. Your renting a pod is just throwing away money and making it the pod company's responsibility to deal with the crap, which isn't fair. Your sibling won't be any less angry with you with the pod process than with the get rid of it directly with the junk haulers process.

I wouldn't care in the least what sibling says about you. Clearly they are mentally ill. I would try to have your elderly parent remove them as POA, though, because that could be a recipe for disaster.

Good luck with it. Hoarding is a mental illness and is very difficult to deal with in a family member.

OP, I have a very difficult sibling with hoarder tendencies and a major need to control. She hates me the most, but can get petty with others to the point she has sued a neighbor over something minor and threatened others. Needless to say dealing with anything related to an elderly parent is impossible.

So I hire people. That way I don't need to deal with her push back and mental health issues. We haven't had to clean out a house yet, but when we do I will hire someone, explain the situation, find out legally what we can do and let that person do all the communicating. She does behave better for others especially when she doesn't know them well enough to know if she can manipulate them and she knows from her litigiousness, witnesses to bad behavior is not a good thing.

Luckily there is money there so I tell her either we use that money or she can take care of things herself. If she had refused a middle person I would consult with a lawyer and if there was a hoarding situation I would see if legally I can give her a date to clean up before I get maybe the public health department involved or whoever deals with things that are unsanitary.

If it’s legal where you are, record any conversations with the sibling. You can tell them you’re recording the call and maybe that will be enough for them to settle down a bit.

While he wasn’t quite this bad, it took us 3 years to get my BIL out of late FIL’s house. He wanted to keep everything. DH is done with his brother after that experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

But no matter what you do or when you do it, this is going to happen. You're looking for a way to make an irrational person rational. It's not going to happen.

You need to do what needs to be done to secure the elder's finances. Attempting to accommodate hoarder sibling is a barrier to that. If there were a squatter in the house, would you try to make them leave happily, or would you accept that they need to leave by whatever means necessary?

Very good point!

I’ve taken initial steps based on your advice.

My plan will be to rent a storage unit and hire movers to move hoarder’s stuff there with the boundary that they have 1 month and then either pay or the stuff is taken.

Get junk haulers to come.

I will provide POA paperwork.

Then painters, cleaners, etc.

It will be money well spent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You cannot give a hoarder an empty space to fill as they will fill it with new trash. You give a specific date, with enough time to move things and several reminders of when it’s happening. Stay firm and who cares what this person says, it’s about your parents care not their junk.

Thank you. I suspect they would want to keep the house forever. If I wasn’t around, they probably would fill it with junk.

OP

You should change the locks once it is empty or stuff will pile up in there within a few weeks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares? Tell them they have until 1/31 and on 2/1 when they haven't done it, call the junk haulers.

I will have to deal with character defamation and screaming and 10 phone calls a day so I care.

OP

But no matter what you do or when you do it, this is going to happen. You're looking for a way to make an irrational person rational. It's not going to happen.

You need to do what needs to be done to secure the elder's finances. Attempting to accommodate hoarder sibling is a barrier to that. If there were a squatter in the house, would you try to make them leave happily, or would you accept that they need to leave by whatever means necessary?

Very good point!

I’ve taken initial steps based on your advice.

My plan will be to rent a storage unit and hire movers to move hoarder’s stuff there with the boundary that they have 1 month and then either pay or the stuff is taken.

Get junk haulers to come.

I will provide POA paperwork.

Then painters, cleaners, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way I would give 30 days notice to someone this mentally ill. I’m not sure I would give any notice at all frankly, but if did, it would be no more than a week. Add me to the list of people that don’t understand why this person isn’t blocked already.

Clearly, you have to plan to be there with legal paperwork in hand. And if sibling shows up and loses their mind, you should call the cops.

I’m not the OP but can empathize with their situation. It’s easy for us to armchair quarterback their situation but add in love for their sibling and all the complicated emotions that come with dealing with a situation like this and it’s not so black and white.

Thank you very much.

OP

Anonymous wrote:You cannot give a hoarder an empty space to fill as they will fill it with new trash. You give a specific date, with enough time to move things and several reminders of when it’s happening. Stay firm and who cares what this person says, it’s about your parents care not their junk.

Thank you. I suspect they would want to keep the house forever. If I wasn’t around, they probably would fill it with junk.

OP