Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:49
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP... what's happening in Texas and elsewhere is an atrocity. Heathcare needs should be determined by doctors and qualified medical professionals, NOT attorneys, judges and legislators.
Aborting every baby because their mother is experiencing a high risk pregnancy is not healthcare.
Spouting nonsense is not useful to this discussion. Not a single poster said that "aborting every baby because their mother is experiencing a high risk pregnancy is healthcare".
Yet no one is talking about solutions for women besides abortion, This woman didn’t want an abortion.
The only solution offered in this thread is abortion, even if a woman doesn’t want one.
The solution for all women is not doctors aborting every baby because of pregnancy complications. But that’s all you talk about.
There are other options for a woman with pregnancy complications and none of them are considered by people who think abortion is the answer to every woman’s pregnancy complications.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:45
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Sometimes abortion IS a solution. Nobody thinks it is the only one.
It does need to be a possibility that doctors can discuss with their pregnant patients when needed. This is not allowed in TX, so this woman likely didn’t get the info about her condition to be considered “fully informed”
What the patient chooses to do with the information provided by medical professionals is her decision. One hopes they have all information needed.
It does need to be a possibility that doctors can discuss with their pregnant patients when needed. This is not allowed in TX, so this woman likely didn’t get the info about her condition to be considered “fully informed”
What the patient chooses to do with the information provided by medical professionals is her decision. One hopes they have all information needed.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:41
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP... what's happening in Texas and elsewhere is an atrocity. Heathcare needs should be determined by doctors and qualified medical professionals, NOT attorneys, judges and legislators.
Aborting every baby because their mother is experiencing a high risk pregnancy is not healthcare.
Spouting nonsense is not useful to this discussion. Not a single poster said that "aborting every baby because their mother is experiencing a high risk pregnancy is healthcare".
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:38
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:NP... what's happening in Texas and elsewhere is an atrocity. Heathcare needs should be determined by doctors and qualified medical professionals, NOT attorneys, judges and legislators.
Aborting every baby because their mother is experiencing a high risk pregnancy is not healthcare.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:35
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
NP... what's happening in Texas and elsewhere is an atrocity. Heathcare needs should be determined by doctors and qualified medical professionals, NOT attorneys, judges and legislators.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:33
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
I wasn’t arguing this case as it sounds like a lot more than just the pregnancy contributed to her death. She of course did have a right to make her own decision. I mean, maybe if her docs had been allowed to talk about her options, it could have made a difference, but we’ll never know. This is definitely not like the Kate Cox case.
“Leticia wasn’t as sure, recalling something Yeni said in passing after her improvement in the Austin I.C.U.: that if a doctor had to choose between saving her or saving Selene, her daughter should come first. Leticia had responded, half in jest, “And who exactly is going to take care of Selene?” “Well, you, Mami!” Yeni said.
“Me?” Leticia teased. “If you leave, you better take Selene with you!” Laughing, the women laid the subject to rest, never to discuss it again.“
The solution to this issue was not for this one woman to abort her baby.
The solution would have been for her to be supported by her husband and family and receive the medical care she needed.
Even if she had aborted her baby against her will, how would that help the next woman with a high risk pregnancy? So going forward: all women with high risk pregnancies will routinely have abortions as a solution? That’s the solution: abortion.
Abortion is not a solution.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:27
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
Our laws reflect our subjective moral beliefs. Those beliefs may change over time, but keeping the government out our lives is a straw man. Prostitution is illegal. We get involved with the doctor patient relationship in myriad ways. Licensing, what medicaid will pay for, physician assisted suicide, etc.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:26
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
You are making lots of assumptions to make your point. Now you are saying she’s not bright enough to have made the decisions she made.
I don’t for one second believe this women understood the risks of her condition. Lots of people say very “brave” things when they don’t believe there is something to lose.
Doctors in Texas aren’t allowed to give woman the best information or medical advice.
When Texas does right by women, I’ll have a different opinion.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:24
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
I wasn’t arguing this case as it sounds like a lot more than just the pregnancy contributed to her death. She of course did have a right to make her own decision. I mean, maybe if her docs had been allowed to talk about her options, it could have made a difference, but we’ll never know. This is definitely not like the Kate Cox case.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:23
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
I don’t for one second believe this women understood the risks of her condition. Lots of people say very “brave” things when they don’t believe there is something to lose.
Doctors in Texas aren’t allowed to give woman the best information or medical advice.
When Texas does right by women, I’ll have a different opinion.
So when this woman told her mom she wanted her baby to live if there was a problem, she was not informed?
She clearly made a choice and since you don’t agree with her choice, you are blaming Texas.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:20
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
I don’t for one second believe this women understood the risks of her condition. Lots of people say very “brave” things when they don’t believe there is something to lose.
Doctors in Texas aren’t allowed to give woman the best information or medical advice.
When Texas does right by women, I’ll have a different opinion.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:18
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
YOU ARE INVOLVING YOURSELF IN THIS WOMAN’S BIRTHING ISSUES!
You are a hypocrite, or an idiot.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:16
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)
Ironic, the people posting here don’t agree with this woman’s right to choose to be pregnant.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 10:15
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Pregnancy is also a medical condition and, in some cases, a life threatening one. If it is life threatening, ending the medical condition of pregnancy to save the living human is the best course of action. Until we develop a way to keep zygotes/fetuses growing outside a uterus, these are the decisions that must be made and the already living being should always have precedence until viability.
In which states can a woman not end a pregnancy to save her life?
And, it is important to note that many pregnancies are considered at risk.
Ending a pregnancy when there are challenges should not be the first course of action, especially if the mother does not want it.
In which states can a women carry a pregnancy and make decisions about her care with her doctor, not involving lawyers and legislators and courts and vigilantes, etc. Carry your pregnancies in those states ladies if you can. Look to receive modern medical care instead of some backwards, compromised care.
Which is exactly what this woman did.
She lived where she wanted. She was pregnant and wanted to be pregnant.
Yet it’s a problem how?
She is dead.
Would she be alive if he care was governed by different laws that allowed for different medical advice and care?
Would she be alive if she had not been morbidly obese?
Would she be alive if she taken the opportunity to enroll in Medicaid?
Would she be alive if she had taken her entitlement to receive free (paid for by Texas) and necessary medications, and taken the dose of medications as her doctor prescribed, instead of trying to work while seriously ill?
Would she be alive if she could have rested at home instead of working while seriously ill?
Would she be alive if she and her husband had left their home and rented an apartment in Dallas by a major medical center?
Would she be alive if she had exercised and eaten a healthy diet before becoming pregnant, lost weight to improve her chances of a healthy pregnancy?
Would she be alive if her husband had taken care of their family’s financial situation while she was pregnant?
This is one of the most ridiculous debates about abortion I have ever encountered.
A clearly unhealthy woman becomes pregnant and is ecstatic with her pregnancy.
Her husband doesn’t support her financially and she is forced to work.
While her health continues to fail, she still does not enroll in Medicaid.
She tells her mom she wants her baby to be saved over her in case of medical emergency.
The push to abort wanted, healthy babies over the choice of their own mothers to continue their pregnancies isn’t offensive to people?
Every baby must be aborted no matter what, no exceptions. Mom wants her baby? Too bad, abort. All women must have abortions. It makes the women who chose to have abortions because they didn’t want to be pregnant feel less guilty, apparently.
Anonymous
01/21/2024 09:58
Subject: Republican utopia - Texas!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well, “elective” is also a fraught term
Birthing children is fraught. You do not need to involve yourself in other women's reproductive decisions. You have your own fraught reproductive journey so concern yourself with that. Your birthing issues are none of my business.
I was arguing with the person who was parsing the term abortion.
“Elective” doesn’t actually get into the nuances, either. Not all of the abortions that might fit under this term are done because the person just doesn’t want to be pregnant.
I’m With you that we shouldn’t be involving ourselves in any of it. This should all be up to the person that is pregnant and their doctor(s)