Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure - I lean left, but pragmatically so and I’m often skeptical of some of the maxims of the far left.

One such is - and this is where some of my friends on the populist left beer into Make America Great Again territory in this glorification of the past - the idea that once upon a time, a middle class worker could afford a house in the suburbs and raise kids on a single income.

The rationale behind this nostalgia is that income inequality has grown, and the combination of corporate greed-driven inflation and stagnant wages has lowered the purchasing power of your average workaday nine-to-five bloke, and that only the ultra rich can afford the “American Dream” lifestyle of a single family home with a white picket fence, etc. And that somebody somewhere along the line, probably Ronald Reagan, ruined everything.

While the sentiment resonates with me ideologically, I’d like to take a closer look at some of the assumptions.

First, having a single income generally meant that the woman stayed home. While I’m as feminist as the next person and think women of course should have freedom to work, the trade off is childcare costs.

Second, the middle class “American Dream” of the 1950s was a lot simpler. It’s one thing to acknowledge the insane cost of housing, but even the 50s/60s “keeping up with the Joneses” era didn’t have the same expenses of today. Smartphones and all the tech and gadgets didn’t exist, and overseas vacations were rare.

Third, and this is where I actually don’t know the answer and am asking the audience… to what extent was the “American Dream” affordable to the AVERAGE person, versus an aspiration that could be achieved by competing and moving up the ladder? Maybe in the 1990s? (I say this because I grew up solidly middle class in the 90s, my parents both worked but they had normal jobs, were not executives, didn’t work excessive hours, and could afford a SFH, three cars, summer camps, and the occasional overseas vacation plus Florida).

I DO believe that a) we have a housing crisis, and b) “hustle culture” is toxic. But I do have doubts about the idea that life used to be so much easier and that younger generations have it uniquely hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

There's no such thing as "starter" homes anymore, especially around here.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me!

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure - I lean left, but pragmatically so and I’m often skeptical of some of the maxims of the far left.

One such is - and this is where some of my friends on the populist left beer into Make America Great Again territory in this glorification of the past - the idea that once upon a time, a middle class worker could afford a house in the suburbs and raise kids on a single income.

The rationale behind this nostalgia is that income inequality has grown, and the combination of corporate greed-driven inflation and stagnant wages has lowered the purchasing power of your average workaday nine-to-five bloke, and that only the ultra rich can afford the “American Dream” lifestyle of a single family home with a white picket fence, etc. And that somebody somewhere along the line, probably Ronald Reagan, ruined everything.

While the sentiment resonates with me ideologically, I’d like to take a closer look at some of the assumptions.

First, having a single income generally meant that the woman stayed home. While I’m as feminist as the next person and think women of course should have freedom to work, the trade off is childcare costs.

Second, the middle class “American Dream” of the 1950s was a lot simpler. It’s one thing to acknowledge the insane cost of housing, but even the 50s/60s “keeping up with the Joneses” era didn’t have the same expenses of today. Smartphones and all the tech and gadgets didn’t exist, and overseas vacations were rare.

Third, and this is where I actually don’t know the answer and am asking the audience… to what extent was the “American Dream” affordable to the AVERAGE person, versus an aspiration that could be achieved by competing and moving up the ladder? Maybe in the 1990s? (I say this because I grew up solidly middle class in the 90s, my parents both worked but they had normal jobs, were not executives, didn’t work excessive hours, and could afford a SFH, three cars, summer camps, and the occasional overseas vacation plus Florida).

I DO believe that a) we have a housing crisis, and b) “hustle culture” is toxic. But I do have doubts about the idea that life used to be so much easier and that younger generations have it uniquely hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me! You're just angry with his politics, or rather, he destroyed the progressive left stranglehold over the national dialogue through twitter and censorship.

The irony is that going by all polls, the demographics people are talking about on here, including your parents, the modest lower middle class/upper working class, are the demographics flocking to Trump and may give him the victory. They are very angry with the progressive left, particularly the establishment classes, for pretending to care about them when in reality they do nothing. Which is the Democratic party.

The latest poll from ABC/Ipsos was intriguing as it showed 43% saying they were not as well off under Biden as before (presumably under T). While 41% said "about the same" and only 13% said "better off," the 43% is stark because it's the highest % ever - by a substantial amount - saying not well off going back to when the question was first asked in 1986. Very bad numbers for a Democrat who is supposed to care about people, eh?

https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1231a2IntotheElection-.pdf

Musk didn't "found" anything, and he was also born on third base.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The BIG differences from the ‘70’s are the cost of college and less access to consumerism/marketing (fewer options and access). Back then, people just had fewer options to buy stuff - no easy access to goods and services. Even to get actual cash you had to go to the bank (no atms). Imagine coming home and having NO media funneling marketing at you - no phone, few TV ads, nothing but one worn monthly fashion magazine filled with goods you had no way of accessing because those items weren’t sold anywhere near you. It was fine.

My Dad worked 5.5 (half day Saturdays ) days a week, left for work before I got up and “ maybe” made it home by dinner. My mom stayed home and cooked from scratch, shopped deals, and cleaned our home. I’m not sure everyone would want this now. Even back then people worked very hard. It’s not all like TV and Dick Van Dyke unless umc territory

Just throwing this into the mix - but parents, especially fathers, spend a lot more time parenting than they did in the 70s. I think that probably involves some economic trade-offs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me! You're just angry with his politics, or rather, he destroyed the progressive left stranglehold over the national dialogue through twitter and censorship.

The irony is that going by all polls, the demographics people are talking about on here, including your parents, the modest lower middle class/upper working class, are the demographics flocking to Trump and may give him the victory. They are very angry with the progressive left, particularly the establishment classes, for pretending to care about them when in reality they do nothing. Which is the Democratic party.

The latest poll from ABC/Ipsos was intriguing as it showed 43% saying they were not as well off under Biden as before (presumably under T). While 41% said "about the same" and only 13% said "better off," the 43% is stark because it's the highest % ever - by a substantial amount - saying not well off going back to when the question was first asked in 1986. Very bad numbers for a Democrat who is supposed to care about people, eh?

https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1231a2IntotheElection-.pdf

Anonymous wrote:One reason I think income inequality is worse today is because of caregiving professions like nursing, teaching, and childcare. These are all professions in great need due to our aging population, households needing 2 full time parents, and more people attending college. Yet, the pay for these professions has not kept up with other sectors. Tons of articles explaining why the cost of things like college and childcare have gone up despite wages for those workers still being low compared to the level of education required.