Anonymous wrote:Gosh this is making me rethink my daughter’s plans to major in engineering. She’s super good at math but has never expressed interest in building things. It sounds quite hard.

Getting an engineering degree can be more difficult than the profession, depending on career goals. Working in design/build as a structural engineer or MEP is a rather comfy job, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but how many actually come out w/ engg degree?

Not too many. I actually am an engineer (Aero undergrad and EE masters) and I can tell you that TONS of people dropped out when I was in school. I'm old, so was often the only woman. That was....interesting.

Not sure how it is at Caltech or MIT, but in our School of Engineering, about 40% of the engineering majors are women now.

They don't really have a choice now, do they?

Anonymous wrote:Great thread. I am wondering if the Engineering curriculum is needlessly being made hard?

I am an engineer and use less than 10% of the math courses I had.

We keep hearing about shortage of engineers. Are the universities driving away potential students??

Start a supreme court case about it, why don't you? Dumb everyone down, while you say you are not.



Next: Everyone should be in at MIT, regardless of credentials. You pay for XXXXX hours tutor, you get in. Puhleeze.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people don't realize how much harder an Engg degree is compared to other strong degrees (science, econ/finance etc)

My DC engineering student has almost double the amount of class hours (class, discussion, labs) as non-engineering friends. It is more difficult than most kids realize and many drop out.

This is an underrated difficulty of engineering programs. I needed 140 credits to graduate with a BSCE eons ago. Most of it was very scripted and left only 9 hrs for electives (essentially just 3 classes) over fours years. There was little to no room for error or taking less than the 17-18 hrs per semester and you often don’t even get “credit” for the many required labs.

We also had to take one “basic” engineering class in a different E discipline (which, at the time boiled down to Circuits/EE or Thermo/ME) and that one darn near killed me. But I loved all my CE classes (except Steel Structures, which, last I checked, isn’t even undergrad work now) and spent 10 years in that career before transitioning to another STEM field.

It is hard. It’s not for everyone.

lol come on thermo was fun!!

-ME

Major, puns intended I suppose, props to you. I couldn't have done the full ride down that path. At least in Statics, everything had to equal zero!

I seriously think there is something odd about engineering courses (and I have a degree in Electrical/Electronics and a Ph.D. in physics). Eng thermo was awful, the Physics version (even stat mech) was easy. Transport phenomena (heat, mass transfer, fluid flow) was awful but a straight up physics of fluids class was easy (for me). Control theory (which is essentially complex analysis) was terrible. So it is not just the math or the underlying physics that is hard but something in the way it is used/taught in the engineering school versions of these classes that is just off. So hat tip to all engineers who go through and stick with it. Even general relativity or field theory is easier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Female with an EE undergrad. Most classes were so hard for me, but I powered through and graduated with a poor GPA. As a result, internships and first jobs were hard to get. I eventually found my footing and I’m now a successful software engineer (thanks to the CS classes required for the EE degree).

How poor was your GPA if you don't mind sharing? This is my concern with DD who is a current sophomore in engineering. She has a 3.0, but seems to be really struggling. Wondering if I should suggest she look at other majors

Not at all, my GPA was a 2.8.

I agree with the poster who mentioned federal employment opportunities and suggestion that your daughter should stick it out. A few of my engineering friends took offers with the USPTO and moved up the ranks so fast. I think it only takes 3-4 years nowadays to get to GS-13/14. USPTO is always hiring from any engineering discipline.

Best of luck to your daughter.

20:15, would you mind sharing what some of these schools were?

Great thread. I am wondering if the Engineering curriculum is needlessly being made hard?

I am an engineer and use less than 10% of the math courses I had.

We keep hearing about shortage of engineers. Are the universities driving away potential students??

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I have a son who is in his first year hoping to get into Computer Engineering and needs a 3.75 GPA to be competitive (he is in general engineering for now), after his first semester he has a 3.45, which is great but might put him in the running for electrical or mechanical which are his fall backs for now. We have a daughter in her third year at a different university majoring in systems engineering with a minor in mechanical. They both work hard and I will give them extra props this week before they head back to school.

It is difficult to get and maintain a High gpa in engineering/cs. This is a good reason for people to consider schools where you can select any engineering you want and it's not a competition to maintain a 3.8+ to get into the major you desire. They do exist at many good engineering schools. My kid was accepted at 4 of that type, all in the 30-70 range.

Anonymous wrote:Gosh this is making me rethink my daughter’s plans to major in engineering. She’s super good at math but has never expressed interest in building things. It sounds quite hard.

Don't rethink it! let her try and explore the options.

Anonymous wrote:How are the job opportunities for EE or Chem E, for example?

CS I get it - but other 'traditional' engineering degrees?

..., but are there sufficient jobs for all the graduating engineers?

Jobs are more limited and often lower pay for civil engineering, the HVAC and building/construction types of Mech E, or for power specialists with an EE degree. Those work areas often also have the extra requirement of passing EIT/PE exams and obtaining a PE license.

No shortage of jobs exists for EE/ECE graduates in the non-power specialties. Electronics, RF design, signal processing, computer design, CPU design, ASIC/FPGA design all have much more demand than supply. I do not think there is much danger of over supply of qualified people in those areas.

Many EE/ECE graduates also end up writing software, often the higher salary low-level software of operating systems, real-time systems, or embedded systems.

Many non-engineers do not understand how painful it is for *anyone* to get through any engineering degree. Anyone who says it was easy is not being honest.

Anonymous wrote:Female with an EE undergrad. Most classes were so hard for me, but I powered through and graduated with a poor GPA. As a result, internships and first jobs were hard to get. I eventually found my footing and I’m now a successful software engineer (thanks to the CS classes required for the EE degree).

My female ChemE major has added CS as a minor. Figure it can only help---they love both and a minor with 7 classes will give them enough to successfully do many software eng jobs should they decide to go that route

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but how many actually come out w/ engg degree?

Not too many. I actually am an engineer (Aero undergrad and EE masters) and I can tell you that TONS of people dropped out when I was in school. I'm old, so was often the only woman. That was....interesting.

Not sure how it is at Caltech or MIT, but in our School of Engineering, about 40% of the engineering majors are women now.

Anonymous wrote:Does everyone think they can be an engineer? Feels like every kid I know is either an engineering major or trying to get into a program. Several of them seem to be struggling to take a full load or get decent grades...is this a sign of the times where its considered a super stable career path so it the "hot" option...

Many people think they can be engineers, few can do so successfully. Being an engineer gives you more options than most other careers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the job opportunities for EE or Chem E, for example?

CS I get it - but other 'traditional' engineering degrees?

I am not challenging..just asking, as I dont know. I guess companies like Dow, GE or Raytheon would hire Chem/EE engineers, but are there sufficient jobs for all the graduating engineers?

Electrical engineers are responsible for things like your cellphone and communication networks you rely on. There's some overlap between EE/CE/Telecom in coursework, so a lot will pivot more toward a developer role, but there are a lot of hardware opportunities in the field. Places like Apple, Dell, Verizon, AT&T, any defense contractor... CS majors need a hardware infrastructure to write code on.

You have to be truly smart and capable to become and engineer. It is not something that you can become because your over bearing mother wants you to be rich, to support her in old age. Nor is it guaranteed money - not many professions are, not even doctors or lawyers, these days.

Some overbearing parents want their kids to study computer science (those that are not qualified to be doctors, lawyers or engineers, for example - it is hard to get regular tutors for all years of those professional schools), which is fine, because CS is much easier then engineering.

Anonymous wrote:How are the job opportunities for EE or Chem E, for example?

CS I get it - but other 'traditional' engineering degrees?

I am not challenging..just asking, as I dont know. I guess companies like Dow, GE or Raytheon would hire Chem/EE engineers, but are there sufficient jobs for all the graduating engineers?

Electrical engineers are responsible for things like your cellphone and communication networks you rely on. There's some overlap between EE/CE/Telecom in coursework, so a lot will pivot more toward a developer role, but there are a lot of hardware opportunities in the field. Places like Apple, Dell, Verizon, AT&T, any defense contractor... CS majors need a hardware infrastructure to write code on.