Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are from a culture that favors the boys and men and devalues girls in the family, this dynamic is very heightened and leads to generations of entitled men.

This is very true. My husband's grandmother was very traditionally Italian and the men in the family were worshipped despite the fact that the daughter cared for her in old age.

I am from a similar culture. I would consider most of the men in mine to have narcissistic traits and cannot fully function on their own. The girls who grow up in my culture fare much better in the long run.

Woken up golden child here.

Having kids made it clear that I wasn't going to let my narc grandpa and enabler grandma anywhere near them because I was absolutely not going to teach my kid that it was her job to contort herself to manage a grown up's feelings. My scapegoat sister had come to roughly the same conclusion around the same time (thanks therapy).

She and I are slowly reprocessing our childhood together, and while I have a lot of guilt about about ways I treated her then, she thankfully gives me a lot of grace - she understands that I was a kid too and I didn't create this dynamic we both found ourselves in.

Our parents are constantly trying to recreate the dynamic even today - calling me about how she is ruining the family and so forth. I tell them I think she is 100% right and until they make things right with her it's a gray rock and arms length from both of us.

We both ended up really successful somehow - managing the eggshells in our household gave us professional superpowers, it turns out. In my marriage, I looked for the exact opposite of what I watched growing up. It took her one failed first marriage replicating it, but now she's got the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scapegoat: internalized the dynamic. Low self esteem. People pleasing

Golden child - survivor’s guilt

Do golden children have the capacity to have guilt? It seems like they lack empathy and tend to be narcissists.

Nope! My sister is a little version of my sick mother, the same lack of empathy the same "what can YOU do for ME" thinking. They both would step over dead bodies on the street. They expect help 24/7 but you won't see a drop of water in the desert or a ear or a shoulder to cry on, EVER.

I relate to this. My sister and mother are completely about "what can YOU do for ME" and they every do some unwanted and inappropriate gesture for someone they decided was kind, it has strings and the beans are being counted. I remember back when I still put my mother on a pedestal there were so many instances of cognitive dissonance where I couldn't believe how easily she took advantage of the kindness of others with little appreciation. They both are extremely entitled and are so rarely capable of being content. If a random toddler greets me or a random dog wags it's tail and wants me to pet it it puts a smile on my face for the rest of the day.

I, the scapegoat to my mom, turned out relatively ok. It still pains me that my mom hates me, that she set me down to explain how everything will go to my sister and told me she thought I would be overjoyed that she would leave me half of the basement of an enormous house, and that is her house(which I signed my share to her after dad passed away, as it was to be split between a surviving spouse and kids, that the law in my country of origin). So, I am ok, but I can't understand why I can't just get over her hate. I told her that she is never, ever to mention the inheritance to me, nor is she ever again to tell me that my kids were not raised right.
My sister, the golden child to mom, is now a raging narcissist herself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scapegoat: internalized the dynamic. Low self esteem. People pleasing

Golden child - survivor’s guilt

Do golden children have the capacity to have guilt? It seems like they lack empathy and tend to be narcissists.

Nope! My sister is a little version of my sick mother, the same lack of empathy the same "what can YOU do for ME" thinking. They both would step over dead bodies on the street. They expect help 24/7 but you won't see a drop of water in the desert or a ear or a shoulder to cry on, EVER.

Anonymous wrote:If you are from a culture that favors the boys and men and devalues girls in the family, this dynamic is very heightened and leads to generations of entitled men.

This is very true. My husband's grandmother was very traditionally Italian and the men in the family were worshipped despite the fact that the daughter cared for her in old age.

I saw some quote applied to a situation in the news that I think applies well to my GC sister. It was something like....if you get used to special treatment, when you are treated equally and fairly, you think you are being discriminated against.

My GC had many exceptional qualities and got lots of praise, but she was never admonished for her alarming behavior. She was seen as incapable of being anything but amazing even when others pointed things out and my parents ascribed some qualities to her she definitely did not have.

So when she left the house and had to function in college and law school and work it came up a lot. Roommates didn't treat her like royalty so there were explosive arguments and moving out. Men she met were never brilliant enough. Job offers were not worthy of her. She expected all sorts of special treatment at work, got fired and then tried to sue her lawfirm. She worked at a top lawfirm and thought she could win suing them?

She will get millions from mom and is well funded by mom, but she will never experience a functional relationship because her concept of relationships is all about what they can do for her.

Anonymous wrote:I was the golden child and my sister the scapegoat. She got pregnant at 19 and I moved far far away for college and stayed on another coast for 25 years. That saved me. I spent my 20s and 30s relearning how to treat people and thought I had made a lot of progress. Then I moved back home last year; thinking it was all behind us. Nope. The positive side is that I saw mom is a covert narcissist and that is where the dysfunction stems from. I wasn’t living up to her expectations (being her best friend), saw her shenanigans/manipilations what they are, and established reasonable boundaries. She isn’t speaking to me. Since I was the golden child, I also get the special role of being her parent (in her mind). So she is pouting that “mommy” isn’t giving her what she needs. I will say that as a golden child prior to therapy, I had absolutely no idea about my atttitudes and behaviors. Once I realized it, it was like a brain fog lifted. I am grateful to live in reality, even though I’ve essentially lost my mom.

Agree with many points here. Downsides of being golden child is being mom’s best friend/mommy. I don’t like watching other people mistreated and abused. Big sense of duty.

I was the golden child and my sister the scapegoat. She got pregnant at 19 and I moved far far away for college and stayed on another coast for 25 years. That saved me. I spent my 20s and 30s relearning how to treat people and thought I had made a lot of progress. Then I moved back home last year; thinking it was all behind us. Nope. The positive side is that I saw mom is a covert narcissist and that is where the dysfunction stems from. I wasn’t living up to her expectations (being her best friend), saw her shenanigans/manipilations what they are, and established reasonable boundaries. She isn’t speaking to me. Since I was the golden child, I also get the special role of being her parent (in her mind). So she is pouting that “mommy” isn’t giving her what she needs. I will say that as a golden child prior to therapy, I had absolutely no idea about my atttitudes and behaviors. Once I realized it, it was like a brain fog lifted. I am grateful to live in reality, even though I’ve essentially lost my mom.

You can detach.

You can work to develop a more positive view of yourself and over time, have people in your life who share it.

You can decide on goals and pursue them without any reference to your family of origin. You can learn not to care what they think or to offer yourself up for ongoing abuse by them.

For starters. Therapy might be a place to begin a different, healthier and happier life for yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother is the golden child. He was able to do very well in school, became a lawyer, is GC, has a mansion, has a rich wife who used to model, has two cute kids, always says the right thing, etc. Both my parents always take his side.

I'm the scapegoat. My mother never bragged about me. When she did talk about me, she'd lie and say what she wished I was. My father just never talks about me. Any time my brother has had one side of a story and I've had another, they've always believed him. It's easy to make me the scapegoat - I'm unimpressive in every sense of the word, at best. I'll never own a home, live in such a rundown apartment that I never have anyone over but am stuck with rent control so can't move, have a dead-end job but can't do anything else, etc.

My brother and I mostly get along, but the way he talks to me or about me in front of his children really bothers me. He is teaching them to see me ignorant, dangerous, unknowledgeable, etc. Our relationship is unbalanced because he can afford to do a lot more than I can.

PP, you don't HAVE to live in the prison of your family dysfunction. You CAN make other choices.

Not sure what this means or what other choices I could be making.

My sister was the academically successful one in college and went to get her PHD and is very successful in her industry. She is much younger than me and according to my mom was always the prettier one.

I was the bad sheep (slut whore as my dad called me) and barely made it out of undergrad. However- I did well enough to get a stable job and be gainfully employed. I’ve been with the same guy for almost three decades (happily married, lovely home, kids and two cats). We were lucky but we also worked hard for our relationship to be balanced.

She is on her 12th failed relationship, never married, and blames me for it because I’m now the favorite one for producing grandkids. She has a stable career and a lovely home but at about the one year mark her insecurities start showing and her relationships implode.

And then she calls me traumatizing when I literally say “do whatever you feel is best.”

WTF.

If you are from a culture that favors the boys and men and devalues girls in the family, this dynamic is very heightened and leads to generations of entitled men.

Anonymous wrote:My husband is probably the scapegoat in his family though I think his parents don't really like any of them; there are three kids. His younger sister is probably favored. His older brother spends a lot of his time with them, getting their attention, etc. As I said, I don't think they care. They retired and moved out of state about 20 years ago. My husband was physically abused and has had lots of damage from that. I really had no idea what this meant and how it would affect my life, but it has. The least of it is that he had chronic anxiety that I think he masked by being outgoing and talkative. He has done a ton of work. At one point I got in an argument with his mom and that was it. I realized my husband really didn't care and didn't like them at all, so we stopped making any effort. We don't see them, they don't contact our kids. They are extremely cold people. His former therapist described them as reptiles. They seem normal and are superficially nice. It's been so long I don't care and I'm glad our family life has been peaceful.

+1

Reptiles is extremely accurate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does it mean to be the scapegoat?

The scapegoat is the family member the rest of the family blames for everything that goes wrong. There can be a narcissistic parent involved who projects their perceived best traits on to the golden child and their perceived worst traits on to the scapegoat. One child gets the parent's best attention, the other child all the parent's worst attention. For decades.

OP, there are videos on YouTube about being scapegoated, and what happens to the family scapegoat in adulthood. Often, this family member goes gray rock and then eventually no contact with their families who are unable to see them as anything different. But now they're almost 50, not 15, and they're done being treated badly. The scapegoat is usually the most emotional strong member of the family. That's why they can carry the weight of all of this, and come out the other side even stronger. They are often more successful than the golden child, too.

You literally described me. Took me nearly 50 years to realize WTF happened to me.

+1

This is MIL. OP, look up splitting and triangulation - that is what happens in these scenarios. As soon as DH learned more and more about the dysfunction, he stepped away from the drama. Coming to the realization, and understanding what it is and why, is a huge part of the recognizing and closure of how he was treated. Of course, those who benefitted from the treatment would never (EVER) admit to having done so, so do not bother, and definitely do not wait for any apologies - not going to happen. All narcissists see is themselves.