Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused at how everyone in this thread assumed that OP’s post was about Israeli misconduct and not about Israeli suffering.

1. Religious observance is often a comfort in times of suffering. Hanukkah observance is low key and inspiring. Observing Hanukkah is more like going to a church service than a drunken Christmas party. It's not incompatible with Israeli suffering.

2. Lived experience. I'm in a Facebook group where another (nonJewish) mom announced that menorahs were now "contentious symbols" and Jews should not be "putting them in windows" this year. Her post got dozens of likes from other non Jews, many of whom, I'm sure, would have been wholly offended at the suggestion that Muslim women stop wearing hijab after 9-11.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused at how everyone in this thread assumed that OP’s post was about Israeli misconduct and not about Israeli suffering.

1. Religious observance is often a comfort in times of suffering. Hanukkah observance is low key and inspiring. Observing Hanukkah is more like going to a church service than a drunken Christmas party. It's not incompatible with Israeli suffering.

2. Lived experience. I'm in a Facebook group where another (nonJewish) mom announced that menorahs were now "contentious symbols" and Jews should not be "putting them in windows" this year. Her post got dozens of likes from other non Jews, many of whom, I'm sure, would have been wholly offended at the suggestion that Muslim women stop wearing hijab after 9-11.

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused at how everyone in this thread assumed that OP’s post was about Israeli misconduct and not about Israeli suffering.

Anonymous wrote:I am so confused at how everyone in this thread assumed that OP’s post was about Israeli misconduct and not about Israeli suffering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this post was written by someone who is not Jewish the same way conservative trolls will try to post things from the perspective of "a lifelong liberal who is now disillusioned".

Judaism is not Israel. I'm ashamed of Israel's war crimes the same way I am ashamed of the US war crimes following 9-11. That doesn't mean I don't still believe in democracy.

I'm the pp from previous page that said I was struggling with the war crimes. I feel the same way about 9/11. If 9/11 was actually 6/11, would you still feel so jolly about celebrating 7/4 so soon after? IMO no, it would certainly dampen the mood. I get that 7/4 isnt religious, but the "feeling" is missing, related directly to crimes being committed by what I'm supposed to celebrate.

What court has found Israel guilty of war crimes?

Well thats not what this thread is about, buuuuut since you asked:
We will soon find out, apparently yesterday Erdogan called for Bibi to be tried. "The butcher of gaza" has quite the ring to it. We will see what happens, but it's clear that many things happening are war crimes -
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-says-israels-netanyahu-will-be-tried-war-criminal-2023-12-04/

Feel free to check the sources at the bottom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war

I'm appalled by Israel's government and Netanyahu, but pardon me if I don't consider Erdogan to be an entirely good-faith judge of what's going on. (For one, he previously said Israelis are "only satisfied by sucking [Palestinian children's] blood" and that behind all opposition to Turkey's government lies "this mastermind," before his political allies produced a video titled "The Mastermind" that opened with a Star of David.)

I wouldn't expect to see Netanyahu on trial for war crimes unless the opposition takes power and decides to throw him overboard, and even then, he'd probably flee to somewhere where he couldn't be made to stand trial.

I agree with you on Erdogan, but there is other unrest simmering, this was just a very public and recent call for action. The Netherlands has been accused of "war crime complicity", and I feel like the longer this war goes on (aka the more people are killed) the more sh*t is going to hit the fan for Bibi and countries supporting israel.

Anyways, just saying that there are lots of israelis and jews that dont support the measures being taken and are finding this season difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

“Zamietchkowski, you are a hundred percent right,” answered the Rabbi. “When I reached the third blessing, I also hesitated and asked myself, what should I do with this blessing? I turned my head in order to ask the Rabbi of Zaner and other distinguished Rabbis who were standing near me if indeed I might recite the blessing. But just as I was turning my head, I noticed that behind me a throng was standing, a large crowd of living Jews, their faces expressing faith, devotion, and deliberation as they were listening to the rite of the kindling of the Chanuka lights. I said to myself, if G-d has such a nation that at times like these, when during the lighting of the Chanuka lights they see in front of them the heaps of bodies of their beloved fathers, brothers, and sons, and death is looking from every corner, if despite all that, they stand in throngs and with devotion listening to the Chanuka blessing “Who performed miracles for our Fathers in days of old, at this season”; indeed I was blessed to see such a people with so much faith and fervor, then I am under a special obligation to recite the third blessing.”

https://ohr.edu/holidays/chanukah/miracles/2835

Anonymous wrote:Hanukkah is observed, not celebrated. And the reason for observing it is the same today as it has been.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this post was written by someone who is not Jewish the same way conservative trolls will try to post things from the perspective of "a lifelong liberal who is now disillusioned".

Judaism is not Israel. I'm ashamed of Israel's war crimes the same way I am ashamed of the US war crimes following 9-11. That doesn't mean I don't still believe in democracy.

I'm the pp from previous page that said I was struggling with the war crimes. I feel the same way about 9/11. If 9/11 was actually 6/11, would you still feel so jolly about celebrating 7/4 so soon after? IMO no, it would certainly dampen the mood. I get that 7/4 isnt religious, but the "feeling" is missing, related directly to crimes being committed by what I'm supposed to celebrate.

Wow, I missed the part where on Hanukkah we’re supposed to celebrate the state of Israel. Here I thought it was a Jewish holiday celebrating the history of the Jewish people.

Maybe brush up on your history and you’ll feel a bit better. Or are you either implying or outright saying that the Jewish people as a whole must answer for the particular acts of the government of Israel?

When non-Jewish people insist on making non-Israeli Jews answer for Israeli policies, I call them antisemites. When Jewish people fall into the same trap, I think they’ve been listening to too many antisemites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this post was written by someone who is not Jewish the same way conservative trolls will try to post things from the perspective of "a lifelong liberal who is now disillusioned".

Judaism is not Israel. I'm ashamed of Israel's war crimes the same way I am ashamed of the US war crimes following 9-11. That doesn't mean I don't still believe in democracy.

I'm the pp from previous page that said I was struggling with the war crimes. I feel the same way about 9/11. If 9/11 was actually 6/11, would you still feel so jolly about celebrating 7/4 so soon after? IMO no, it would certainly dampen the mood. I get that 7/4 isnt religious, but the "feeling" is missing, related directly to crimes being committed by what I'm supposed to celebrate.