This is way more common than we think

Honestly, what's the difference between stretching the truth on ECs and submitting a test score which represents hours of undisclosed one on one tutoring, multiple retakes and extra time in a quiet room?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

This is a cop out trying to justify eliminating holistic because there are cheaters. There are also people who are incredibly enriched that are benefitted in testing. Kids also cheat at school. I see no one calling to ban grades. Student accomplishments are important indicators of what they may bring to campus. The real message here should be don't try to cheat your way in.

Everyone wants to ban grades. My school is the only school without super inflated grades.

How about we emphasize integrity rather than normalize cheating.

And AOs need to realize that the kids with the most integrity are often the quiet kids. Not the ones making the most noise and the so-called class leaders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

This is a cop out trying to justify eliminating holistic because there are cheaters. There are also people who are incredibly enriched that are benefitted in testing. Kids also cheat at school. I see no one calling to ban grades. Student accomplishments are important indicators of what they may bring to campus. The real message here should be don't try to cheat your way in.

Everyone wants to ban grades. My school is the only school without super inflated grades.

Everyone wants to ban grades? The “bad test taker” brigade would sooner claw your eyes out with their bare hands than ban grades.

Holistic review centered around GPA, which is the second most manipulated metric on the history of Western Civilization (after a man’s height), has been the realization of a dream of getting their kid into top schools.

Ain’t nobody going after GPA without a fierce fight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

The rich/privileged love 'holistic'. Their messaging is that it helps the poors but in reality it allows them to game it to their benefit. Who do you think the college cartel will listen to?

PP you replied. I'm rich! I don't think it has anything to do with gaming the system for the rich... but maybe more to do with Americans' distaste for purely academic competition. It's true that colleges do end up benefiting from a non-transparent form of selection: they have total control over their selections and can "shape their freshman class" however they want, pick the athletes and the musicians that will make their institution well-rounded, get artists to exhibit works in their little campus museum, etc, and all this translates into donations and fundraising. Holistic benefits institutions of higher learning, as business entities, but not individual families. So colleges sell this to families as a low-stress, "whole-child" environment, and Americans have bought this hook, line and sinker. There's out-an-out competition in sports, but woe to the parent who wants to judge kids based on academics alone! They're labeled as Tiger Parents and the anti-asian hate isn't far behind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

This is a cop out trying to justify eliminating holistic because there are cheaters. There are also people who are incredibly enriched that are benefitted in testing. Kids also cheat at school. I see no one calling to ban grades. Student accomplishments are important indicators of what they may bring to campus. The real message here should be don't try to cheat your way in.

Everyone wants to ban grades. My school is the only school without super inflated grades.

How about we emphasize integrity rather than normalize cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

This is a cop out trying to justify eliminating holistic because there are cheaters. There are also people who are incredibly enriched that are benefitted in testing. Kids also cheat at school. I see no one calling to ban grades. Student accomplishments are important indicators of what they may bring to campus. The real message here should be don't try to cheat your way in.

Everyone wants to ban grades. My school is the only school without super inflated grades.

Anonymous wrote:
I know, OP! It's infuriating, because as long as admissions are "holistic", there will be cheating and fraud.

It's much harder to cheat on a standardized test than it is to casually invent a bunch of extra-curriculars.

University admissions need to be entirely academic and standardized.

This is a cop out trying to justify eliminating holistic because there are cheaters. There are also people who are incredibly enriched that are benefitted in testing. Kids also cheat at school. I see no one calling to ban grades. Student accomplishments are important indicators of what they may bring to campus. The real message here should be don't try to cheat your way in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the passion project movement is rooted in this "trust and never verified" system.

you can laugh but the kids who found a "passion" in spring of junior year to cook with grandma (look for our podcast!) while connecting your love for baking with your interest in chemistry were super super successful with top colleges

the fact that you cooked with grandma 4x, did 4 podcasts that were 7 minutes each, than you dropped it all and actually plan on transferring into CS asap all go unmentioned. our high school counselors let people tell their own stories, even when they side eye it all

This is actually what private college counselors help kids do.

There’s a whole cottage industry that charges $50,000 to create these narratives. Very very easy to do and you don’t need to pay to do this well.

Where's the evidence that it actually works though? It's really hard to tell since you'll never know how any particular kid would have done without it.

Ask around, most parents in this area freely admit to paying someone under the guise of “outsourcing the process to stay on top of things”.

Anonymous wrote:For the schools that aren't selective, they weren't really scrutinizing this anyway, so it was a stupid and unnecessary thing to do.

For the selective schools, it takes so much more than this to get in, but any whiff of dishonesty could knock you out, so it was a stupid move.

Good point

I'm not going to advise DS to lie - because he would think less of me, and I'd rather die than lose his good opinion - and I think he's fundamentally honest, so he won't lie on his own initiative.

Not sure if I really believe it, but on reddit r/collegeresults someone claimed they lied about major, verifiable things (internships, varisty sports, work experience, volunteering, awards) and didn't get caught.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the passion project movement is rooted in this "trust and never verified" system.

you can laugh but the kids who found a "passion" in spring of junior year to cook with grandma (look for our podcast!) while connecting your love for baking with your interest in chemistry were super super successful with top colleges

the fact that you cooked with grandma 4x, did 4 podcasts that were 7 minutes each, than you dropped it all and actually plan on transferring into CS asap all go unmentioned. our high school counselors let people tell their own stories, even when they side eye it all

This is actually what private college counselors help kids do.

There’s a whole cottage industry that charges $50,000 to create these narratives. Very very easy to do and you don’t need to pay to do this well.

Where's the evidence that it actually works though? It's really hard to tell since you'll never know how any particular kid would have done without it.

It works at our private school. For schools like Vanderbilt or Barnard or Middlebury.
Don’t think it’s working for a top 10 school.

You can’t just add one or two of these made up things. You have to complement your whole app. So maybe the kid has one or two real things and embellishes a few others.

In thinking further abt this, I bet most of your kids embellished the total hours for the their activities

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the passion project movement is rooted in this "trust and never verified" system.

you can laugh but the kids who found a "passion" in spring of junior year to cook with grandma (look for our podcast!) while connecting your love for baking with your interest in chemistry were super super successful with top colleges

the fact that you cooked with grandma 4x, did 4 podcasts that were 7 minutes each, than you dropped it all and actually plan on transferring into CS asap all go unmentioned. our high school counselors let people tell their own stories, even when they side eye it all

This is actually what private college counselors help kids do.

There’s a whole cottage industry that charges $50,000 to create these narratives. Very very easy to do and you don’t need to pay to do this well.

Where's the evidence that it actually works though? It's really hard to tell since you'll never know how any particular kid would have done without it.

Anonymous wrote:the passion project movement is rooted in this "trust and never verified" system.

you can laugh but the kids who found a "passion" in spring of junior year to cook with grandma (look for our podcast!) while connecting your love for baking with your interest in chemistry were super super successful with top colleges

the fact that you cooked with grandma 4x, did 4 podcasts that were 7 minutes each, than you dropped it all and actually plan on transferring into CS asap all go unmentioned. our high school counselors let people tell their own stories, even when they side eye it all

This is actually what private college counselors help kids do.

There’s a whole cottage industry that charges $50,000 to create these narratives. Very very easy to do and you don’t need to pay to do this well.