Anonymous
11/29/2023 17:25
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Has your mother been filing taxes or do you think you might discover that she hasn't been filing?
Anonymous
11/29/2023 15:58
Subject: Re:82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Anonymous wrote:
OP I have been through this, to some extent, with both my MIL and my own mother. For MIL, she had a plan in place (an independent living retirement home near her) but that flew out the window after a bad fall which turned into surgery which turned into post surgery dementia (fortunately short term)--suddenly her plan of moving into the retirement apartment 2000 miles from any family fell apart. Who would move her stuff, take her to doctors, get all the forms,etc? who would be there after the next fall? who would watch over finances? who would help her get around, now that she was in a wheelchair?
We ended up moving her to be near us in a fairly high level of assisted living and had to figure all that stuff out under more difficult circumstances (although she was good about providing info in files for the future). Now its fine--took a while to deal with all the paperwork, getting authorizations, selling her home, etc, but having her in assisted living nearby means that there's 24/7 care and we are near if something happens. Between social security and her penson, she covers 85% of her costs and the rest are coming from the ever dwindling funds from selling her home. We honestly didn't think she'd make it this far (she's turning 93) so we'll have to chip in soon, but its manageable. So this is the example of crisis putting kids in the driver's seat.
In my mom's case, I saw symptoms of cognitive decline, mostly in her inability to deal with anything complex. So in this case I took weeks off work over the summer had to spend time at her home and go through everything and act as a detective. I also could not give her too many options. It was overwhelming. So like a PP suggested, I drafted some simple POA type things, and took her to the UPS store to notarize. I went through mail, bills, etc and got onto as many accounts as I could (this is also when I discovered that she was being financially exploited to the tune of almost 200k, that's another post)..the point here is that I had to go there, through her bills (which were a mess! and that was a huge clue) to get this done. SHe was willing to cede control, but she was in
capable of doing anything about it. THis was a few years ago, she is now in assisted living and has alzheimers. I haven't done everythhing, but I have a fairly good handle on things now. We have rented her home to provide cash flow, I manage all her affairs (with my brother's permission and oversight, though he never bothers to check in), and whie its a lot of work, at least I have a handle on things now. but if I hadn't gone out and really probed, she'd still be at home, with a part time caregiver, and seeming okay while in reality failing to pay bills (like, she dropped her long term care insurance after 25 years of paying into it), failing to cash checks, failing to follow up with doctors, getting into car accidents and getting scammed. in fact, before I went out there to really assess things, she had mentioned maybe getting a 'roomate'--the person who was scamming her was also trying to install a relative to live there. In california, tenant laws are so strong that she would have never been abe to get this person to leave.
It's unclear, did you sell your mom's home or rent it?
My spouse and his sibling sold their mom's house. There was very little advantage to renting and a lot to selling. My brother and I are renting my mom's house. I would have preferred to sell, but my mom wasn't quite ready to 'let go' emotionally (not that she will move back there, realistically) and my brother felt there were advantages to keeping it. Of course he's not the one having to deal with the hassles (even though he's 100 miles away and I'm 3000). anyway its finally rented after sinking a lot of money into it, but we could have sold it easily in 2021 as is. my advice, to most people, is if you can sell it, do so. managing a parent's care, along with your own life and family, is already enough hassle if its not your f/t job. Having to manage a rental property adds another layer of complexity (we even hvae a company but there's a lot of troubleshootig I had to do and oversee renovations from afar, more complicated taxes, etc)...
Anonymous
11/29/2023 15:48
Subject: Re:82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Anonymous wrote:OP I have been through this, to some extent, with both my MIL and my own mother. For MIL, she had a plan in place (an independent living retirement home near her) but that flew out the window after a bad fall which turned into surgery which turned into post surgery dementia (fortunately short term)--suddenly her plan of moving into the retirement apartment 2000 miles from any family fell apart. Who would move her stuff, take her to doctors, get all the forms,etc? who would be there after the next fall? who would watch over finances? who would help her get around, now that she was in a wheelchair?
We ended up moving her to be near us in a fairly high level of assisted living and had to figure all that stuff out under more difficult circumstances (although she was good about providing info in files for the future). Now its fine--took a while to deal with all the paperwork, getting authorizations, selling her home, etc, but having her in assisted living nearby means that there's 24/7 care and we are near if something happens. Between social security and her penson, she covers 85% of her costs and the rest are coming from the ever dwindling funds from selling her home. We honestly didn't think she'd make it this far (she's turning 93) so we'll have to chip in soon, but its manageable. So this is the example of crisis putting kids in the driver's seat.
In my mom's case, I saw symptoms of cognitive decline, mostly in her inability to deal with anything complex. So in this case I took weeks off work over the summer had to spend time at her home and go through everything and act as a detective. I also could not give her too many options. It was overwhelming. So like a PP suggested, I drafted some simple POA type things, and took her to the UPS store to notarize. I went through mail, bills, etc and got onto as many accounts as I could (this is also when I discovered that she was being financially exploited to the tune of almost 200k, that's another post)..the point here is that I had to go there, through her bills (which were a mess! and that was a huge clue) to get this done. SHe was willing to cede control, but she was incapable of doing anything about it. THis was a few years ago, she is now in assisted living and has alzheimers. I haven't done everythhing, but I have a fairly good handle on things now. We have rented her home to provide cash flow, I manage all her affairs (with my brother's permission and oversight, though he never bothers to check in), and whie its a lot of work, at least I have a handle on things now. but if I hadn't gone out and really probed, she'd still be at home, with a part time caregiver, and seeming okay while in reality failing to pay bills (like, she dropped her long term care insurance after 25 years of paying into it), failing to cash checks, failing to follow up with doctors, getting into car accidents and getting scammed. in fact, before I went out there to really assess things, she had mentioned maybe getting a 'roomate'--the person who was scamming her was also trying to install a relative to live there. In california, tenant laws are so strong that she would have never been abe to get this person to leave.
It's unclear, did you sell your mom's home or rent it?
Anonymous
11/29/2023 12:39
Subject: Re:82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
OP I have been through this, to some extent, with both my MIL and my own mother. For MIL, she had a plan in place (an independent living retirement home near her) but that flew out the window after a bad fall which turned into surgery which turned into post surgery dementia (fortunately short term)--suddenly her plan of moving into the retirement apartment 2000 miles from any family fell apart. Who would move her stuff, take her to doctors, get all the forms,etc? who would be there after the next fall? who would watch over finances? who would help her get around, now that she was in a wheelchair?
We ended up moving her to be near us in a fairly high level of assisted living and had to figure all that stuff out under more difficult circumstances (although she was good about providing info in files for the future). Now its fine--took a while to deal with all the paperwork, getting authorizations, selling her home, etc, but having her in assisted living nearby means that there's 24/7 care and we are near if something happens. Between social security and her penson, she covers 85% of her costs and the rest are coming from the ever dwindling funds from selling her home. We honestly didn't think she'd make it this far (she's turning 93) so we'll have to chip in soon, but its manageable. So this is the example of crisis putting kids in the driver's seat.
In my mom's case, I saw symptoms of cognitive decline, mostly in her inability to deal with anything complex. So in this case I took weeks off work over the summer had to spend time at her home and go through everything and act as a detective. I also could not give her too many options. It was overwhelming. So like a PP suggested, I drafted some simple POA type things, and took her to the UPS store to notarize. I went through mail, bills, etc and got onto as many accounts as I could (this is also when I discovered that she was being financially exploited to the tune of almost 200k, that's another post)..the point here is that I had to go there, through her bills (which were a mess! and that was a huge clue) to get this done. SHe was willing to cede control, but she was incapable of doing anything about it. THis was a few years ago, she is now in assisted living and has alzheimers. I haven't done everythhing, but I have a fairly good handle on things now. We have rented her home to provide cash flow, I manage all her affairs (with my brother's permission and oversight, though he never bothers to check in), and whie its a lot of work, at least I have a handle on things now. but if I hadn't gone out and really probed, she'd still be at home, with a part time caregiver, and seeming okay while in reality failing to pay bills (like, she dropped her long term care insurance after 25 years of paying into it), failing to cash checks, failing to follow up with doctors, getting into car accidents and getting scammed. in fact, before I went out there to really assess things, she had mentioned maybe getting a 'roomate'--the person who was scamming her was also trying to install a relative to live there. In california, tenant laws are so strong that she would have never been abe to get this person to leave.
We ended up moving her to be near us in a fairly high level of assisted living and had to figure all that stuff out under more difficult circumstances (although she was good about providing info in files for the future). Now its fine--took a while to deal with all the paperwork, getting authorizations, selling her home, etc, but having her in assisted living nearby means that there's 24/7 care and we are near if something happens. Between social security and her penson, she covers 85% of her costs and the rest are coming from the ever dwindling funds from selling her home. We honestly didn't think she'd make it this far (she's turning 93) so we'll have to chip in soon, but its manageable. So this is the example of crisis putting kids in the driver's seat.
In my mom's case, I saw symptoms of cognitive decline, mostly in her inability to deal with anything complex. So in this case I took weeks off work over the summer had to spend time at her home and go through everything and act as a detective. I also could not give her too many options. It was overwhelming. So like a PP suggested, I drafted some simple POA type things, and took her to the UPS store to notarize. I went through mail, bills, etc and got onto as many accounts as I could (this is also when I discovered that she was being financially exploited to the tune of almost 200k, that's another post)..the point here is that I had to go there, through her bills (which were a mess! and that was a huge clue) to get this done. SHe was willing to cede control, but she was incapable of doing anything about it. THis was a few years ago, she is now in assisted living and has alzheimers. I haven't done everythhing, but I have a fairly good handle on things now. We have rented her home to provide cash flow, I manage all her affairs (with my brother's permission and oversight, though he never bothers to check in), and whie its a lot of work, at least I have a handle on things now. but if I hadn't gone out and really probed, she'd still be at home, with a part time caregiver, and seeming okay while in reality failing to pay bills (like, she dropped her long term care insurance after 25 years of paying into it), failing to cash checks, failing to follow up with doctors, getting into car accidents and getting scammed. in fact, before I went out there to really assess things, she had mentioned maybe getting a 'roomate'--the person who was scamming her was also trying to install a relative to live there. In california, tenant laws are so strong that she would have never been abe to get this person to leave.
Anonymous
11/28/2023 11:15
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Lots of sympathy for you, OP. It is maddening, the denial and refusal to plan. As others have said, lots goes into parents' unwillingness/inability to deal realistically with aging, and usually things go along until a crisis forces the issue.
Control what you can (your own finances, your own time management, your own planning and research) and accept that your parent has an independent life and may make choices that seem stupid to you (like going up and down dangerous stairs). My parents, for example, steadfastly refused to have help in the home long past the time when they needed it, and it seemed to me that my dad was suffering in ways that he did not have to, and it was absolutely enraging. All of my entreaties fell on deaf ears. Nothing got done until an illness that put him in rehab, and the social workers there refused to discharge him into just my mother's care since she obviously could not care for him alone.
It's hard to keep your mouth shut when people are making bad choices. But mostly you need to be responsible for yourself and what you are/are not willing to do to assist. Prioritize your own children and your own mental health. Eldercare is usually a marathon, not a sprint, and things get done in a slow, inefficient process rather than one fell swoop.
Control what you can (your own finances, your own time management, your own planning and research) and accept that your parent has an independent life and may make choices that seem stupid to you (like going up and down dangerous stairs). My parents, for example, steadfastly refused to have help in the home long past the time when they needed it, and it seemed to me that my dad was suffering in ways that he did not have to, and it was absolutely enraging. All of my entreaties fell on deaf ears. Nothing got done until an illness that put him in rehab, and the social workers there refused to discharge him into just my mother's care since she obviously could not care for him alone.
It's hard to keep your mouth shut when people are making bad choices. But mostly you need to be responsible for yourself and what you are/are not willing to do to assist. Prioritize your own children and your own mental health. Eldercare is usually a marathon, not a sprint, and things get done in a slow, inefficient process rather than one fell swoop.
Anonymous
11/28/2023 08:38
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Anonymous wrote:Her executive function is going, OP.
She literally cannot do most of what you’re asking, and when she starts thinking about it, it’s overwhelming and she stops. Not just emotionally, but in terms of basic execution: she sits down to look at a form. The pencil is upstairs. She gets it. Sits back down. Then she realizes she needs to find old paperwork to fill out this form (bank, tax, etc). She’s already braved the stairs once, and she can’t remember where the old paperwork is.
So she thinks: “I’ll do it tomorrow”.
You’re not helping.
You have to take several long weekends, live in her house, fill out everything for her, explain like she’s 7, and she signs. It depends how stubborn she is, and how persuasive you are and how you can physically help her remember where she put her info.
So first you have to prepare your spiel, the right papers, and maybe consult a lawyer. You present 2-3 viable options to your mother, she picks and signs. Hopefully!
I know it’s a slog. My erstwhile highly-organized father is regressing and I will have to do something similar.
NP. But isn’t that what’s so frustrating about it? Surely the erstwhile highly functioning parent could have planned ahead and not leave this chaos to the AC to work through.
Anonymous
11/28/2023 00:38
Subject: Re:82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
OP - On your children at age 26 considering that they may not be settled in a full-time job with health as good health benefits as your family policy may fifer, read about COBRA rules which offer continued coverage for three years paying as a single person on the policy. It is high, but it may afford the quality care a young adult needs while completing their education or getting a job in some fields. We did it fir a daughter who had mental health issues surface in college because without it back then a therapist was about $100 a session.
I agree with all the posters who advised getting advice on a fee based manner regarding finances and elder law issues. Also learning about local services ahead of time can be very helpful.
I agree with all the posters who advised getting advice on a fee based manner regarding finances and elder law issues. Also learning about local services ahead of time can be very helpful.
Anonymous
11/27/2023 11:40
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is the typical boomer attitude. Awful, she needs to hand over everything and go away instead of being a burden.
The OP's mom is post-war, not boomer. It's not a boomer thing, it's an old person thing. We need to accept that most very old people are not mentally capable of end of life planning. Back in the old days, we didn't move out of town when we grew up, and they lived at home with us, and we took care of them as they got older.
And life expectancy was a lot lower back in the day, so they didn't live with their kids for nearly as long. When the Social Security system was created, people's average life expectancy was in the 50s to 60s range (depending on gender and race), not the 80s. And we also didn't have the drugs and medical procedures we do now to prolong quantity of life (not necessarily quality), preventing mortality but promoting morbidity.
OP, I have nothing but sympathy. I'd personally start by finding an eldercare attorney where your mom lives and at least getting the POA, healthcare proxy, etc. signed by your mom. She needs to understand that these only kick in when she is not able to make decisions for herself, not immediately. Getting those in order is the most important first step.
Anonymous
11/27/2023 11:09
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Anonymous wrote:Have I got a guy for her! Same attitude and reluctance to make a plan.
One moment of breakthrough with him was explaining that the reason he needs a plan is that if/when something happens to him, we want everything to be the way he wants it to. If we don't know what that is, we wont be able to set him up the way he wants.
Exactly. "Mom, I know you don't want to decide anything because you don't want to think about it, but not deciding IS deciding: You're deciding that when the time comes, you are going to take whatever's available to you, and if you are too sick to make decisions then, I make them for you. If that's not what you want, you need to plan. Bob & I have a file of all our financial records and our wills and living wills, and we've told people where to find them. We want to be the ones who make those decisions, and I'm pretty sure I got my independent streak from you. Unless that skips a generation."
Anonymous
11/26/2023 19:26
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Have I got a guy for her! Same attitude and reluctance to make a plan.
One moment of breakthrough with him was explaining that the reason he needs a plan is that if/when something happens to him, we want everything to be the way he wants it to. If we don't know what that is, we wont be able to set him up the way he wants.
One moment of breakthrough with him was explaining that the reason he needs a plan is that if/when something happens to him, we want everything to be the way he wants it to. If we don't know what that is, we wont be able to set him up the way he wants.
Anonymous
11/26/2023 18:57
Subject: 82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss
Op, what state are you in? Some states have forms for power of attorney. I could look for you.