1. Not sure of our HHI. 500k? Not a lot by DCUM standards. UC based on family and upbringing (not originally from US, so it has less to do w $$$), I present as MC or UMC here. We were all taught to say UMC growing up.
2. Comfortable - I love my life and am happy and grateful.
3. Rich to me = just paying cash for everything instead of making sure everything is structured to maximize returns at every step; never having to consider things like liquidity, health insurance or whether real estate is going to appreciate. I have friends from school who don’t have to think about these things and it seems very freeing. I don’t think that will ever happen for me, and at any rate I am cheap and live modestly relative to our zip code. Lifestyle advice growing up has always emphasized frugality.

Anonymous wrote:So my house if around 700K(owe 180K on it) and I own a condo fully paid off that is around 450K. We earn 200K. Are we millionaires? We have no savings other than government retirements.

No. A million liquid

I am lower middle class. A single digit millionaire

As usual the people here are delusional about their wealth and privilege, would you really look the fast food worker in the face and say any of this to them? It’s insulting. Do away with the false modesty and cost of living justifiers and state the truth. You are upper middle class with a toe in the wealthy department. No wonder they want to, “eat the rich”

This thread makes me think of this article from WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/never-mind-the-1-mini-millionaires-are-where-wealth-is-growing-fastest-b1dd2ee7?st=a56rncgwudym06o&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Some highlights:

- About 16 million American families—just over 12%—have wealth exceeding $1 million, up from 9.8 million families in 2019. Nearly eight million families are multimillionaires, i.e., their wealth exceeds $2 million, up from 4.7 million.

- Who are these mini-millionaires? They generally earn between $150,000 and $250,000 a year. They wouldn’t typically be considered rich, but upper middle class. (This depends to some extent on where they live: The same house is worth more in some parts of the country.)

- ...only 1% of families under 35 are millionaires, but that rises with age. By ages 55-64, 21% of families are millionaires.

This trend is particularly pronounced among college graduates, of whom 45% were millionaires between ages 55-64. That includes 26% of families who become multimillionaires and 11% with a net worth over $5 million. The average college graduate’s net worth is over $2 million now, though as usual this is skewed by those at the very top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my house is around 700K(owe 180K on it) and I own a condo fully paid off that is around 450K. We earn 200K. Are we millionaires? We have no savings other than government retirements.

I think so technically.

I guess I am also technically not able to afford a new car without a loan, as I do need to live somewhere.

Anonymous wrote:So my house if around 700K(owe 180K on it) and I own a condo fully paid off that is around 450K. We earn 200K. Are we millionaires? We have no savings other than government retirements.

I think so technically.

I think people don't understand that in this area - dual earner families, making say, $300K combined, aren't living the rich life. First, with two working parents, they have to pay a lot in childcare. Then, if you also factor in taxes, cost of living in this area, saving for retirement, paying off student loans, mortgage, 2 cars, saving for kids to go to college, etc. - you don't have tons of other money left to be dropping on whatever else the heck you want - you have to be keeping track of your expenses, etc. - so no, that doesn't feel rich. I feel like rich means you can do whatever you want and money is no object.

I'll give you that I can accept that this is upper middle class, but we're still not paying for cable, for example because we have to decide what our priorities are, since we can't fund everything. I don't consider that rich.

So my house if around 700K(owe 180K on it) and I own a condo fully paid off that is around 450K. We earn 200K. Are we millionaires? We have no savings other than government retirements.

Anonymous wrote:Probably a lot of people in their mid- to late-50s with money in retirement accounts that they can’t access (absent penalties) and relatively modest incomes.

Remember, if you started saving young, you could be a factory work and get to that point by 60 or so. Very few of those people would think of themselves as “rich.”

People who never married or never had kids are the ones with millions at retirement age. Kids are a wealth killer.

You can have a million net worth but if $700 is in your home equity and thus non liquid you are a very cash constrained millionaire. Until you can write a check for one million for something like a second home or something else outrageous you are not really a millionaire.

1. $70k and MC.
2. We are comfortable, because the $70k is from part time work and two different investment incomes. I can always go back working full time. It's also meant for two people only.
3. I would feel rich with 1.5 million in investments. Not because it's a lot, but because I spend so little.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Combined of about $400k. Bonus of about $200k this year. UMC

2. Comfortable, but not rich. The bonus is variable, some of it is equity, and I (70% of HHI) could be laid off at any time. Net worth of about $3.5M in our mid 40s, $1.8M 401k, $1.2M after tax, $500k home equity.

We have 3 kids, are paying for a nanny, and are “time poor”. That means we’re often buying time, ordering takeout, etc.

I often avoid taking toll roads, book flights out of inconvenient airports like BWI, book flights with layovers, etc. I’m buying 5 plane tickets every time we travel. Inflation has pushed prices on everything way up.

3. $8M?

Now imagine the life of a family of 5 on $80K income (average for DMV). You say your time poor - so are those working 12 hour shifts or two jobs where they are standing all day long. I wouldn't trade my office job for a McDonalds job even if it were the same salary - I know that those folks work harder than me everyday and are way more tired at the end of their shift than I am. I also know that society has decided that I'm more productive then McD workers - even if I'm actually "working" only 4-6 hours per day.

I'm self aware of my privilege and realize that I'm UMC (even UC), even if I'm frugal with my daily expenses because I save for expense 10-20 years down the road.

But the argument people here are also making is that once that family amasses 1M in their retirement accounts (even if they’re 70+ and this is the money they have to live on the rest of their lives) they’re now suddenly wealthy. It’s just a stupid premise. Lots of families have 1M in assets that they can realistically expect to give them maybe 50k per year in income. That’s not wealthy, that’s just how responsibly saving for retirement looks.

Anonymous wrote:See, it isn't only on DCUM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/10/survey-31percent-of-millionaires-say-they-are-part-of-the-middle-class.html

A recent Ameriprise survey found that about 60% of milllionaires consider themselves "middle class." A quarter of households making $175k called themselves "very poor," "poor," or "getting by but things are tight." An Edelman Financial survey found that Americans said they'd need to earn $233,000 on average to feel financially secure and $483,000 to feel rich.

What about you?
1. What's your HHI and what do you consider yourself? $170K/yr and UMC
2. Do you feel poor, comfortable or rich? Why? Comfortable
3. What level would you need to achieve to feel "rich?" Three times my current HHI

Anonymous wrote:1. Combined of about $400k. Bonus of about $200k this year. UMC

2. Comfortable, but not rich. The bonus is variable, some of it is equity, and I (70% of HHI) could be laid off at any time. Net worth of about $3.5M in our mid 40s, $1.8M 401k, $1.2M after tax, $500k home equity.

We have 3 kids, are paying for a nanny, and are “time poor”. That means we’re often buying time, ordering takeout, etc.

I often avoid taking toll roads, book flights out of inconvenient airports like BWI, book flights with layovers, etc. I’m buying 5 plane tickets every time we travel. Inflation has pushed prices on everything way up.

3. $8M?

Now imagine the life of a family of 5 on $80K income (average for DMV). You say your time poor - so are those working 12 hour shifts or two jobs where they are standing all day long. I wouldn't trade my office job for a McDonalds job even if it were the same salary - I know that those folks work harder than me everyday and are way more tired at the end of their shift than I am. I also know that society has decided that I'm more productive then McD workers - even if I'm actually "working" only 4-6 hours per day.

I'm self aware of my privilege and realize that I'm UMC (even UC), even if I'm frugal with my daily expenses because I save for expense 10-20 years down the road.