Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 22:30     Subject: Re:Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Has anyone mentioned about how often posts get derailed? Often it seems like two or three posters that just go back and forth on the same topic that actually isn't what the threads about.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 21:35     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


I’m curious what you recommend desperate parents do instead? It’s a difference between being a productive adult or being an unemployable dropout possibly in jail or addicted for my kid.

Also, unless you have a special education kid, especially with “behaviors” I don’t think you can understand the blaming, gaslighting, and evasion that parents endure. Based on my experience with my NT kid only, I would say the school administration is trustworthy and be shocked that anyone had a different experience.

There is a reason IDEA demands parents be informed of their rights every meeting. Even though that is useless, it’s an acknowledgment that if parents don’t advocate for their kids’ rights (or hire someone else to do it) their rights won’t be protected.


Of course I have a DC with SN and a 504. Before the diagnosis and 504, we were lied to and threatened by the school administration, which was shocking and scary, very disillusioning - but that pales next to today's sped crisis. I know that cooperation gets you more than combative attitude, and I know that there may not be much to get. That's why hiring an advocate or attorney as a first or second step, rather than a tenth or twelfth step, seems like poor advice to me. And when teachers tell us parents how unhappy they are, it's not an attack or an invitation to attack. It's just reality.


I agree on the combative approach part. Also I don’t think parents realize how drawn out things can get and how long meeting your child’s needs can be delayed by getting an attorney or advocate. People will chime in with their stories otherwise but that’s anecdotal. I think there are times when it’s necessary. Like when the team just can’t figure out an alternative that might work and a good advocate who knows all of the available programs might have ideas. But this knee jerk reaction of just recommending g going in with guns blazing even before there’s a problem doesn’t make sense.

I do think that peoples generous sharing of how to prepare and what’s available is really wonderful.


After 15 years working with IEP and 504 plans for my kids, the bold has not been my experience. In the beginning I was very cooperative and took whatever scrap was thrown too us. But, over time I got smart and understood our rights. Problems that dragged out for months and many, many meetings could actually be fixed with one well-crafted letter stating the facts, the law, the corrective action expected and the timeframe within which it was expected or we would move to due process. That IS being "cooperative" - giving the system a chance to correct itself before litigation. "Cooperation" is not trading away some of my kid's legal rights for compliance in other areas.

Once adopted this approach, I found that problems that used to take months to resolve with multiple phone calls, emails, appeals to superiors, etc. could be fixed in as little as a day by putting a responsible official on notice that they were "out of compliance" with the law.

Every time I hired an attorney or an advocate, I had a better outcome.



Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 17:43     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
I've been posting here a long time and it goes back and forth. The folks without any SN experience wandering in from Recent Events drive me insane and, I have to admit, I often get snarky in my response to them when they say something rude or shaming. But the response from other SN parents seems to go up and down.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 13:57     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:Nobody shells out the money for an advocate unless they have already been stonewalled by the school. My child with significant needs was denied even an *evaluation* by his ES and the special ed coordinator outright lied to me about 504s being “just as good” as an IEP. I hired an advocate and everything fell into place.

Several years earlier I had gotten him early intervention services but the central office also tried to deny him that, and they also lied or were misinformed about the law. I got him services only because I myself am a lawyer and was able to advocate myself. I had not been expecting to have to do so at that meeting but because my training allowed me to effectively state my case with the right level of force, they found him eligible.

Keep in mind this is a kid with significant needs - now 8 years after that initial encounter with the system absolutely nobody disagrees that he needs the IEP.


+1
IME there are a lot of really terrible school teams out there that try to steer parents in the wrong direction and give misinformation as a way to reduce their own workload. We had the same issue with a team saying no to the question of does our chid have a suspected disability and can we move on to evaluation. We were getting emails and phone calls about this child every single day! They also told us verbally no reason to move forward with a 504 meeting and that they wouldn't hold that meeting.
Well they can't do that, but we didn't know until we spoke with another family. The devious part was they were trying to prevent us from requesting the meeting in writing so there was documentation of our request. There are 100 examples like this just for our family.
We got an advocate and the school stopped lying and misleading us for the most part.
The advocate herself wasn't really useful and honestly a waste of money. I got most of my advice from other parents but it did put the school on notice.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 10:57     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Nobody shells out the money for an advocate unless they have already been stonewalled by the school. My child with significant needs was denied even an *evaluation* by his ES and the special ed coordinator outright lied to me about 504s being “just as good” as an IEP. I hired an advocate and everything fell into place.

Several years earlier I had gotten him early intervention services but the central office also tried to deny him that, and they also lied or were misinformed about the law. I got him services only because I myself am a lawyer and was able to advocate myself. I had not been expecting to have to do so at that meeting but because my training allowed me to effectively state my case with the right level of force, they found him eligible.

Keep in mind this is a kid with significant needs - now 8 years after that initial encounter with the system absolutely nobody disagrees that he needs the IEP.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 10:12     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous

Of course I have a DC with SN and a 504. Before the diagnosis and 504, we were lied to and threatened by the school administration, which was shocking and scary, very disillusioning - but that pales next to today's sped crisis. I know that cooperation gets you more than combative attitude, and I know that there may not be much to get. That's why hiring an advocate or attorney as a first or second step, rather than a tenth or twelfth step, seems like poor advice to me. And when teachers tell us parents how unhappy they are, it's not an attack or an invitation to attack. It's just reality.


This has not been our experience at all. Being nice and trying to work with the school and teachers got our child nothing except a 504 that nobody ever followed.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 10:03     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


I’m curious what you recommend desperate parents do instead? It’s a difference between being a productive adult or being an unemployable dropout possibly in jail or addicted for my kid.

Also, unless you have a special education kid, especially with “behaviors” I don’t think you can understand the blaming, gaslighting, and evasion that parents endure. Based on my experience with my NT kid only, I would say the school administration is trustworthy and be shocked that anyone had a different experience.

There is a reason IDEA demands parents be informed of their rights every meeting. Even though that is useless, it’s an acknowledgment that if parents don’t advocate for their kids’ rights (or hire someone else to do it) their rights won’t be protected.


Of course I have a DC with SN and a 504. Before the diagnosis and 504, we were lied to and threatened by the school administration, which was shocking and scary, very disillusioning - but that pales next to today's sped crisis. I know that cooperation gets you more than combative attitude, and I know that there may not be much to get. That's why hiring an advocate or attorney as a first or second step, rather than a tenth or twelfth step, seems like poor advice to me. And when teachers tell us parents how unhappy they are, it's not an attack or an invitation to attack. It's just reality.


Why is hiring an advocate necessarily combative or an attack? That’s like saying that you would only need a defense attorney when being questioned by the police if you’re guilty.

Also, I think it’s a strawman that people are jumping to hiring help. A few people here might recommend that earlier in the process than I personally would but there have also been plenty of threads on how useless they can be.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 10:01     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


I’m curious what you recommend desperate parents do instead? It’s a difference between being a productive adult or being an unemployable dropout possibly in jail or addicted for my kid.

Also, unless you have a special education kid, especially with “behaviors” I don’t think you can understand the blaming, gaslighting, and evasion that parents endure. Based on my experience with my NT kid only, I would say the school administration is trustworthy and be shocked that anyone had a different experience.

There is a reason IDEA demands parents be informed of their rights every meeting. Even though that is useless, it’s an acknowledgment that if parents don’t advocate for their kids’ rights (or hire someone else to do it) their rights won’t be protected.


Of course I have a DC with SN and a 504. Before the diagnosis and 504, we were lied to and threatened by the school administration, which was shocking and scary, very disillusioning - but that pales next to today's sped crisis. I know that cooperation gets you more than combative attitude, and I know that there may not be much to get. That's why hiring an advocate or attorney as a first or second step, rather than a tenth or twelfth step, seems like poor advice to me. And when teachers tell us parents how unhappy they are, it's not an attack or an invitation to attack. It's just reality.


I agree on the combative approach part. Also I don’t think parents realize how drawn out things can get and how long meeting your child’s needs can be delayed by getting an attorney or advocate. People will chime in with their stories otherwise but that’s anecdotal. I think there are times when it’s necessary. Like when the team just can’t figure out an alternative that might work and a good advocate who knows all of the available programs might have ideas. But this knee jerk reaction of just recommending g going in with guns blazing even before there’s a problem doesn’t make sense.

I do think that peoples generous sharing of how to prepare and what’s available is really wonderful.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 08:57     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


I’m curious what you recommend desperate parents do instead? It’s a difference between being a productive adult or being an unemployable dropout possibly in jail or addicted for my kid.

Also, unless you have a special education kid, especially with “behaviors” I don’t think you can understand the blaming, gaslighting, and evasion that parents endure. Based on my experience with my NT kid only, I would say the school administration is trustworthy and be shocked that anyone had a different experience.

There is a reason IDEA demands parents be informed of their rights every meeting. Even though that is useless, it’s an acknowledgment that if parents don’t advocate for their kids’ rights (or hire someone else to do it) their rights won’t be protected.


Of course I have a DC with SN and a 504. Before the diagnosis and 504, we were lied to and threatened by the school administration, which was shocking and scary, very disillusioning - but that pales next to today's sped crisis. I know that cooperation gets you more than combative attitude, and I know that there may not be much to get. That's why hiring an advocate or attorney as a first or second step, rather than a tenth or twelfth step, seems like poor advice to me. And when teachers tell us parents how unhappy they are, it's not an attack or an invitation to attack. It's just reality.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 08:36     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


I’m curious what you recommend desperate parents do instead? It’s a difference between being a productive adult or being an unemployable dropout possibly in jail or addicted for my kid.

Also, unless you have a special education kid, especially with “behaviors” I don’t think you can understand the blaming, gaslighting, and evasion that parents endure. Based on my experience with my NT kid only, I would say the school administration is trustworthy and be shocked that anyone had a different experience.

There is a reason IDEA demands parents be informed of their rights every meeting. Even though that is useless, it’s an acknowledgment that if parents don’t advocate for their kids’ rights (or hire someone else to do it) their rights won’t be protected.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 08:07     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.


It makes perfect sense. When resources are scarce, it is rational for individuals with means to use those means to get those resources. They can't singlehandedly increase resources for special ed.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 08:04     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.


DP. I have seen an increase here and on the school forums of teachers trying to explain how bad it is, with teacher shortages and with dire sped shortages. And yet, posters here recommend hiring an advocate or attorney as the first course of action. It doesn't make any sense.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2023 06:54     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:I have been disappointed that there seems to be an influx of educational professionals (teachers, admin) who actually do not know special education law or common diagnoses. They give incorrect information to parents and discourage parents from getting help from school. It’s really quite shocking to me.

I don’t remember the SN Board having so many negative people actively steering parents in unhelpful directions.


Yes! Within the last month a very unhappy teacher has been coming here to vent about parents requesting meetings and using advocates, with a very nasty and aggressive tone. People just want the bare minimum that their kid is legally entitled to, and are getting harassed on here for it.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2023 22:08     Subject: Re:Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
I dunno. I started using this site 9 years ago when DS was two, and honestly there were a lot of raw and harsh posts back then too. The problem is that SN doesn’t have nice and easy answers. It’s not like asking for a good cupcake recipe. When you ask what your three year old with preschool problems needs, you’re going to get answers that are hard to hear.

But one big change I do think has impacted the forum is that ten years ago, pdd-nos still existed. And even sort of Asperger’s was more widely known as a term. And now those terms are scrapped and meshed with the ever expanding asd spectrum. And since I’d wager that 50 percent of the parents posting on here have kids who borderline drift into or are cleanly in adhd/odd/asd/anxiety territory, there is a lot of sensitivity on that subject. Ten years ago, no sensitivity - even tho pdd no’s was kind of meaningless, it felt “more right” for a lot of the kids who clearly have SN but where ASD doesn’t feel like the right answer. So I see lots of conflict on that subject.
Anonymous
Post 10/27/2023 21:50     Subject: Does the social needs forum feel like it’s changed?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I rarely post here anymore because more because the misinformation and posts that seem "anti" the special needs person. I have been on this board for many many years. The Advice used to center around what was best for the child. Now it seems there is still some of that but more and more there are so many posts that support "parental prerogative" or to do what makes the parent feel good in the moment. There is also a poster who I hope is only one very active person, and they seem to take every opportunity to make disparaging comments about special needs people.

But the main reason I don't post here or read this board at all very much, is because there is almost never discussions about new ideas. It always seems to go back topics that have been asked and answered many times. You could just search for your question and read the archive .


thisssss.
There's a general vibe that seems to sit in a space of like - any kind of special needs child or any child with any remotely undesirable behaviors should understand that they are a huge inconvenience to, and undesirable to, other children and families and it's the OP's job to remove them and 'correct' the heck out of them until they become 'digestible'. I have one SN kid and one none and short of a kid biting or being aggressive or repeatedly mean, I always teach both my kids to try to see the person's pov and if their behavior is non optimum, what might be going on, maybe give a second chance. even if a kid is aggressive i assume that the parents or the school or the camp are dealing, unless it really obviously is not.


Wow. I felt this. I am the parents of an “indigestible” kid and I love this every day. It’s so hard to read it here, too. Thank you for putting words to that feeling.