Anonymous
10/25/2023 16:06
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Secular religion? Like worshipping a politician or political party?
Not necessarily, though it could be. Fervent, bordering on religiously zealous, adherence to a cause, belief or person.
To take it out of a political context, the increase in celebrity stan culture is an example. BTS Army, Swifties, Sussex Squad, BeyHive etc.
Yup.
Trump is a religion for his hardcore MAGA followers. They speak about him as if he's the messiah and a prophet. It's very similar to fervent religious adherents.
Religion? Then we have DEI, Climate Change and Woke. You can't even see it, can you?
Anonymous
10/25/2023 16:04
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Secular religion? Like worshipping a politician or political party?
Not necessarily, though it could be. Fervent, bordering on religiously zealous, adherence to a cause, belief or person.
To take it out of a political context, the increase in celebrity stan culture is an example. BTS Army, Swifties, Sussex Squad, BeyHive etc.
Yup.
Trump is a religion for his hardcore MAGA followers. They speak about him as if he's the messiah and a prophet. It's very similar to fervent religious adherents.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 16:03
Subject: Re:When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hold the media largely to blame. It doesn’t engage in journalism anymore. No more: who, what, when, where.
It’s all opinion pieces with maybe some facts weaved in. If opinion is authoritative, then each opinion is equally valid. It just devolves into whose opinion has more adherents and is therefore correct.
Why do you blame the media when the media companies are doing what for-profit companies are primarily meant to do - namely profit off of you?
If opinion is what sells, then that's what the media companies will feed you.
Because it's false advertising when they act like they're neutral or objective instead of opinion or advocacy journalists.
Caveat emptor. Take the profit motive out and maybe you'll get something closer to what you ask of journalism.
Would you say the same for other products or services that use false advertising? "Just take away the profit motive, bro!"
Actually yes. Not sure what your argument is.
Your point is not internally consistent. If it's a product or service, the profit motive is already baked in.
It's just a non-sensical suggestion. There's always a profit motive to controlling mass pubic opinion.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:59
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Secular religion? Like worshipping a politician or political party?
Not necessarily, though it could be. Fervent, bordering on religiously zealous, adherence to a cause, belief or person.
To take it out of a political context, the increase in celebrity stan culture is an example. BTS Army, Swifties, Sussex Squad, BeyHive etc.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:55
Subject: Re:When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I hold the media largely to blame. It doesn’t engage in journalism anymore. No more: who, what, when, where.
It’s all opinion pieces with maybe some facts weaved in. If opinion is authoritative, then each opinion is equally valid. It just devolves into whose opinion has more adherents and is therefore correct.
Why do you blame the media when the media companies are doing what for-profit companies are primarily meant to do - namely profit off of you?
If opinion is what sells, then that's what the media companies will feed you.
Because it's false advertising when they act like they're neutral or objective instead of opinion or advocacy journalists.
Caveat emptor. Take the profit motive out and maybe you'll get something closer to what you ask of journalism.
Would you say the same for other products or services that use false advertising? "Just take away the profit motive, bro!"
Actually yes. Not sure what your argument is.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:54
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Stop being a believer and start being a thinker.
Not everything can be summed up in a 20 second sound bite, but they sure try.
op is a thinker; but is being attacked/shamed for thinking and not kowtowing to people who believe their opinions are everyone’s opinions.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:51
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Secular religion? Like worshipping a politician or political party?
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:45
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
So it is tribal to be a person of color fighting for equal rights? or at least the right not to be shot by a cop in my bedroom?
Please take this strawman somewhere else. Ain't nobody got time for it.
Doesn't answer the question.
Is it tribal for a woman to want to manage her own body?
Is it tribal for people of color to fight for equal rights?
Is it tribal for people to fight for the right to marry who they want?
These *should* be considered fundamental rights, but for the conservatives/religious zealots, they have become political issues. Why is that?
You are making it about the belief rather than about the behavior. Way to miss the point of the thread.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:30
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
So it is tribal to be a person of color fighting for equal rights? or at least the right not to be shot by a cop in my bedroom?
If your tactics for “fighting” include shaming and threatening to ostracize people that are potentially aligned with you, then yeah. That’s tribal. You’d be using bullying tactics to enforce in-group v out-group identity.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:29
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
So it is tribal to be a person of color fighting for equal rights? or at least the right not to be shot by a cop in my bedroom?
Please take this strawman somewhere else. Ain't nobody got time for it.
Doesn't answer the question.
Is it tribal for a woman to want to manage her own body?
Is it tribal for people of color to fight for equal rights?
Is it tribal for people to fight for the right to marry who they want?
These *should* be considered fundamental rights, but for the conservatives/religious zealots, they have become political issues. Why is that?
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:29
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Stop being a believer and start being a thinker.
Not everything can be summed up in a 20 second sound bite, but they sure try.
Not everything can be summed up in a 20 second sound bite, but they sure try.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:27
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
So it is tribal to be a person of color fighting for equal rights? or at least the right not to be shot by a cop in my bedroom?
Please take this strawman somewhere else. Ain't nobody got time for it.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:26
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
So it is tribal to be a person of color fighting for equal rights? or at least the right not to be shot by a cop in my bedroom?
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:23
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
+100000
People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.
And what happens when religious identity and positions are intertwined with politicians and policy? ie the Evangelicals
What about it? The point is the amount of people with strong religious identity is declining. Secular religion is the new wave.
Yet you ignore the fundamentalism and evangelicalism rampaging through our country courtesy the Republican Party. Why is that, why do you seek to pretend that reality isn’t what it is?
NP - even accepting that religious identity remains more significant for people on the right, the observation seems to be that people on the left are behaving in ways that seem religious / tribal (e.g., the pressure to confirm viewpoint, shaming, ostracizing non-conformists). These are all “tribal” behaviors. Us v Them.
One side isn’t trying to exterminate the other, though.
I will take this as conceding that Dems and Rs are essentially the modern equivalent of antagonistic tribes, each using similar tactics to enforce in-group v out-group identity.
Anonymous
10/25/2023 15:10
Subject: When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.
Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.
And feelings