Anonymous
11/01/2023 09:08
Subject: Re:Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Switch to the Catholic Church. I went to one for years and no one wanted anything but obedience and money. I was surprised when I went to the Episcopal Church at the number of ways I was almost immediately invited to get involved, volunteer, lead, etc.
I was a Lutheran who moved to a Catholic Church. It's a lot better. I thought the Lutherans had a lot of make work stuff that didn't matter that much. One example is making sandwiches for a homeless shelter. That's fine, but I think writing a check to the shelter (which had its own kitchen where meals were prepared everyday!) or just buying premade wrapped sandwiches from a grocery store is much more useful than spending a Sunday afternoon making stale white bread sandwiches.
^ I'm the PP and realized this sounds so cynical lol. I'm not against all volunteering BTW, just where it makes sense and has a real impact.
So I largely agree with you that donating money is more impactful than donating things (I hate bake sales for this reason!) But labor is often useful to small charitable organizations: somebody has to make the sandwiches, whether it's you or the shelter staff. Same with sorting diapers, wrapping gifts, driving people around. That kind of labor can be valuable.
It's also about community and fellowship. The deep bonds that many church members have with each other? It happens around those tables making those sandwiches and wrapping those gifts. It's as enriching for the people doing it as the people receiving it. Writing a check just doesn't have the same affect.
I've never made deep bonds with anyone. Sitting around wrapping gifts with a group of people who've known each other forever and will never accept me sounds like absolute hell. No thanks.
Anonymous
11/01/2023 09:06
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Churches depend on their congregation to help out and build community. It think it’s wrong to be a free-loader.
Then I guess we'll leave. They don't really want us anyway.
If you take without giving, what value does having you there bring? You're a drain on their community rather than an addition.
Like others have said, that nice service you enjoy? Volunteers. Those Ushers helping you to your seats and keeping you comfortable? Volunteers. The people who clean up after the service and pick up the lovely flowers the make the church beautiful? Volunteers. The people doing readings, singing songs, and making you feel good? Volunteers.
And you come and you enjoy and you add nothing. It's honestly not cool. Your church community is reaching out to you, and you want to reject them while also enjoying the fruit of their unpaid labor.
I'm struggling with severe depression. I'm a drain on everyone, I know. But I can barely leave the house on Sunday mornings, and getting dressed for anything else is not possible more days. I was hoping things would change, but I haven't gotten better enough yet.
I guess we will leave.
Why not see a doctor to address your depression? Things aren't going to change by doing nothing. And I do hope you get the help. It is not a moral failing! Please get the help you need. You are worthy and deserve happiness
It's mostly inertia, not depression. I work from home against my will, so it's difficult to get out and about only once every seven days. Anything more seems almost impossible.
It's absolutely depression. Please see a therapist. There are online therapists.
It's not, though. It's just that it's easier to stay home. I can do Sunday morning because family is along as well. Anything else...not so much. Would you want to put on pants after wearing sweats for a week?
Anonymous
10/31/2023 14:35
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Churches depend on their congregation to help out and build community. It think it’s wrong to be a free-loader.
Then I guess we'll leave. They don't really want us anyway.
If you take without giving, what value does having you there bring? You're a drain on their community rather than an addition.
Like others have said, that nice service you enjoy? Volunteers. Those Ushers helping you to your seats and keeping you comfortable? Volunteers. The people who clean up after the service and pick up the lovely flowers the make the church beautiful? Volunteers. The people doing readings, singing songs, and making you feel good? Volunteers.
And you come and you enjoy and you add nothing. It's honestly not cool. Your church community is reaching out to you, and you want to reject them while also enjoying the fruit of their unpaid labor.
I'm struggling with severe depression. I'm a drain on everyone, I know. But I can barely leave the house on Sunday mornings, and getting dressed for anything else is not possible more days. I was hoping things would change, but I haven't gotten better enough yet.
I guess we will leave.
Why not see a doctor to address your depression? Things aren't going to change by doing nothing. And I do hope you get the help. It is not a moral failing! Please get the help you need. You are worthy and deserve happiness
It's mostly inertia, not depression. I work from home against my will, so it's difficult to get out and about only once every seven days. Anything more seems almost impossible.
You do sound depressed PP. Depression is not always a feeling of sadness. It can be numbness and what you describe as "inertia." It sounds like you're overwhelmed and not taking joy in things you used to. It could help to talk to someone. Even telehealth appointments can do wonders.
Anonymous
10/31/2023 14:33
Subject: Re:Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Switch to the Catholic Church. I went to one for years and no one wanted anything but obedience and money. I was surprised when I went to the Episcopal Church at the number of ways I was almost immediately invited to get involved, volunteer, lead, etc.
I was a Lutheran who moved to a Catholic Church. It's a lot better. I thought the Lutherans had a lot of make work stuff that didn't matter that much. One example is making sandwiches for a homeless shelter. That's fine, but I think writing a check to the shelter (which had its own kitchen where meals were prepared everyday!) or just buying premade wrapped sandwiches from a grocery store is much more useful than spending a Sunday afternoon making stale white bread sandwiches.
^ I'm the PP and realized this sounds so cynical lol. I'm not against all volunteering BTW, just where it makes sense and has a real impact.
So I largely agree with you that donating money is more impactful than donating things (I hate bake sales for this reason!) But labor is often useful to small charitable organizations: somebody has to make the sandwiches, whether it's you or the shelter staff. Same with sorting diapers, wrapping gifts, driving people around. That kind of labor can be valuable.
It's also about community and fellowship. The deep bonds that many church members have with each other? It happens around those tables making those sandwiches and wrapping those gifts. It's as enriching for the people doing it as the people receiving it. Writing a check just doesn't have the same affect.
Anonymous
10/31/2023 10:58
Subject: Re:Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Switch to the Catholic Church. I went to one for years and no one wanted anything but obedience and money. I was surprised when I went to the Episcopal Church at the number of ways I was almost immediately invited to get involved, volunteer, lead, etc.
I was a Lutheran who moved to a Catholic Church. It's a lot better. I thought the Lutherans had a lot of make work stuff that didn't matter that much. One example is making sandwiches for a homeless shelter. That's fine, but I think writing a check to the shelter (which had its own kitchen where meals were prepared everyday!) or just buying premade wrapped sandwiches from a grocery store is much more useful than spending a Sunday afternoon making stale white bread sandwiches.
^ I'm the PP and realized this sounds so cynical lol. I'm not against all volunteering BTW, just where it makes sense and has a real impact.
It’s hard to think of something more directly impactful than making food to feed to hungry people that same day.
As for OP’s question, just keep politely declining. I volunteer at my church but strongly disagree that everyone needs to help out. Church and Christ are for EVERYONE— no strings, no conditions. It’s fine for some people to just show up once a week for worship. That does not mean they view church as “entertainment.”
Anonymous
10/31/2023 10:24
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Raised catholic, been a part of a few different churches.
Definitely try a catholic church if you want this vibe. For some reason, they are welcoming to all for the service (although less so in other roles). You can definitely just show up every Sunday & no one will hound you to join a committee.
Its because the funding and staff (priests) and administrative oversight are supplied by the larger Catholic organization, although they still do use volunteers. With Protestant churches, everything from the church building to the minister's salary is provided by that individual congregation, so there are many more jobs and committee roles.
Anonymous
10/31/2023 10:20
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Churches depend on their congregation to help out and build community. It think it’s wrong to be a free-loader.
Then I guess we'll leave. They don't really want us anyway.
If you take without giving, what value does having you there bring? You're a drain on their community rather than an addition.
Like others have said, that nice service you enjoy? Volunteers. Those Ushers helping you to your seats and keeping you comfortable? Volunteers. The people who clean up after the service and pick up the lovely flowers the make the church beautiful? Volunteers. The people doing readings, singing songs, and making you feel good? Volunteers.
And you come and you enjoy and you add nothing. It's honestly not cool. Your church community is reaching out to you, and you want to reject them while also enjoying the fruit of their unpaid labor.
I'm struggling with severe depression. I'm a drain on everyone, I know. But I can barely leave the house on Sunday mornings, and getting dressed for anything else is not possible more days. I was hoping things would change, but I haven't gotten better enough yet.
I guess we will leave.
Why not see a doctor to address your depression? Things aren't going to change by doing nothing. And I do hope you get the help. It is not a moral failing! Please get the help you need. You are worthy and deserve happiness
It's mostly inertia, not depression. I work from home against my will, so it's difficult to get out and about only once every seven days. Anything more seems almost impossible.
It's absolutely depression. Please see a therapist. There are online therapists.
Anonymous
10/31/2023 10:19
Subject: Re:Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Switch to the Catholic Church. I went to one for years and no one wanted anything but obedience and money. I was surprised when I went to the Episcopal Church at the number of ways I was almost immediately invited to get involved, volunteer, lead, etc.
I was a Lutheran who moved to a Catholic Church. It's a lot better. I thought the Lutherans had a lot of make work stuff that didn't matter that much. One example is making sandwiches for a homeless shelter. That's fine, but I think writing a check to the shelter (which had its own kitchen where meals were prepared everyday!) or just buying premade wrapped sandwiches from a grocery store is much more useful than spending a Sunday afternoon making stale white bread sandwiches.
^ I'm the PP and realized this sounds so cynical lol. I'm not against all volunteering BTW, just where it makes sense and has a real impact.
So I largely agree with you that donating money is more impactful than donating things (I hate bake sales for this reason!) But labor is often useful to small charitable organizations: somebody has to make the sandwiches, whether it's you or the shelter staff. Same with sorting diapers, wrapping gifts, driving people around. That kind of labor can be valuable.
Anonymous
10/31/2023 09:46
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Churches depend on their congregation to help out and build community. It think it’s wrong to be a free-loader.
Then I guess we'll leave. They don't really want us anyway.
If you take without giving, what value does having you there bring? You're a drain on their community rather than an addition.
Like others have said, that nice service you enjoy? Volunteers. Those Ushers helping you to your seats and keeping you comfortable? Volunteers. The people who clean up after the service and pick up the lovely flowers the make the church beautiful? Volunteers. The people doing readings, singing songs, and making you feel good? Volunteers.
And you come and you enjoy and you add nothing. It's honestly not cool. Your church community is reaching out to you, and you want to reject them while also enjoying the fruit of their unpaid labor.
I'm struggling with severe depression. I'm a drain on everyone, I know. But I can barely leave the house on Sunday mornings, and getting dressed for anything else is not possible more days. I was hoping things would change, but I haven't gotten better enough yet.
I guess we will leave.
Why not see a doctor to address your depression? Things aren't going to change by doing nothing. And I do hope you get the help. It is not a moral failing! Please get the help you need. You are worthy and deserve happiness
It's mostly inertia, not depression. I work from home against my will, so it's difficult to get out and about only once every seven days. Anything more seems almost impossible.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 23:03
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Raised catholic, been a part of a few different churches.
Definitely try a catholic church if you want this vibe. For some reason, they are welcoming to all for the service (although less so in other roles). You can definitely just show up every Sunday & no one will hound you to join a committee.
It's not that the catholic church is "welcoming" - it's because for most Catholics you are obliged to be there and many don't want to be there. So no one intrudes during the week because they know even the Sunday (or sat evening) bit is obligatory so why pile on?
Anonymous
10/30/2023 22:00
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Raised catholic, been a part of a few different churches.
Definitely try a catholic church if you want this vibe. For some reason, they are welcoming to all for the service (although less so in other roles). You can definitely just show up every Sunday & no one will hound you to join a committee.
Definitely try a catholic church if you want this vibe. For some reason, they are welcoming to all for the service (although less so in other roles). You can definitely just show up every Sunday & no one will hound you to join a committee.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 21:58
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Oh man, way to build your community…we only want you if you have something to offer.
Very transactional.
Church should be welcome to all. Some people have bandwidth to volunteer, donate money, etc. And some need charity, a helping hand, or just a time & place to connect with God. Seriously, I wouldn’t go to your church either, you are awful. And I’m speaking as someone who volunteers a lot & teaches Sun school, that’s a calling I have - bug if never shame someone for not being able to contribute.
Is it not transactional to show up weekly to a service put on by volunteers but wanting to never be asked to help?
Church isn't entertainment.
It takes the help of a lot of people to make the community great. It's wrong to to sit around taking from others and offering no help in return.
Not having the bandwidth for a period of time is one thing. Expecting to be welcome in a community while also saying you want to "stay at arms length" when it comes to helping is a very different thing altogether.
Fewer and fewer people attend church. You aren’t really in a position to be turning people away.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 21:10
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is why I don’t go to church. The sanctimony of many of these posters…
Way to misread the post. Try again
Not the post. The busybody commenters.
Op posted asking for advice, should everyone ignore her post?
If someone responds to a person asking for advice or opinions, they aren’t a busybody.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 20:50
Subject: Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is why I don’t go to church. The sanctimony of many of these posters…
Way to misread the post. Try again
Not the post. The busybody commenters.
Anonymous
10/30/2023 20:48
Subject: Re:Convincing our church we want to stay at arm's length
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Switch to the Catholic Church. I went to one for years and no one wanted anything but obedience and money. I was surprised when I went to the Episcopal Church at the number of ways I was almost immediately invited to get involved, volunteer, lead, etc.
I was a Lutheran who moved to a Catholic Church. It's a lot better. I thought the Lutherans had a lot of make work stuff that didn't matter that much. One example is making sandwiches for a homeless shelter. That's fine, but I think writing a check to the shelter (which had its own kitchen where meals were prepared everyday!) or just buying premade wrapped sandwiches from a grocery store is much more useful than spending a Sunday afternoon making stale white bread sandwiches.
That's because you are a busy employed parent, not a single retiree.