Anonymous
10/22/2023 15:03
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Job hopping IS the new normal. Younger people recognize that companies won’t look out for them and fire them without notice if needed so they don’t feel any loyalty. I hopped around a bit while finding my footing after college (during the recession). It took a few jobs to find out what I really wanted to do and who I wanted to work for. I’d give them a chance but treat them well and make sure pay stays competitive otherwise they might leave after a year. I’d say they will likely stay longer in their next position because they worry about their resume and short tenures so it might work out.
That's fine. But you'll only get offers from use and dispose employers. The employers that are worth working for, that offer good benefits, that give good raises, are going to skip the job hoppers. Companies like that look for people with a record of staying at least long enough to both be productive and learn something. I look at a resume like that and wonder how much did the person learn about how to actually work post-college. It takes nearly a year to really learn how to do some of the tasks or skills that are not taught in college. So, for me and my company, whether it is the new normal or not, we are not hiring candidates like that. So, job hopping will cut down on the number of job opportunities that you'll have and you'll mostly get the job opportunities from places that aren't worth staying.
But if it works for you, great. I have plenty of decent candidates that have reliable work records to choose from. Different strokes (and employers) for everyone.
In my industry if you are manager or senior analyst, you need to be productive from day 1. If your job offers training for a year… it’s nice and exp is low, where can I apply?
Anonymous
10/22/2023 15:02
Subject: Re:Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:But the people responding that job hopping is normal or to be expected in todays corporate climate are missing the point.
If you’re an employer and have the choice between someone who evidences a clear pattern of job hopping and one who doesn’t, the employer should pick the one who doesn’t.
It may be reasonable to job hop, but it doesn’t change the fact that, for most employers, that employee is likely worthless.
Unless you make hiring decisions at half the companies… My job hopping friends still have higher salaries than me lol.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 22:14
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:His/her timeline is: Finished MBA in 2020, worked job #1 for 9 months, #2 for 6 months, #3 for 15 months, and has been at the current for 6 months.
Justifications seem legit & there is clear career growth. Gave great technical answers to questions & seems like it would be a good fit.
Excuse for leaving job 1: Graduated during the pandemic and took the job that was available in an industry that was not.
Excuse for leaving job 2: Was recruited from job 1 on a contract bases. 6 Months.
Excuse for leaving job 3: Was recruited for job 4 to lead a bigger division, has good references from this position. Position i'm hiring for is in the same industry.
Excuse for leaving job 4: Said 'could stick with this position for years. Good pay, good boss, full time work from home, just the work is unfulfilling and industry isn't ideal.
I want to take the risk here. We urgently need someone on board, but my panel is old school and thinks we go with someone else.
Older people need to realize that younger employees don't stay at jobs they don't like or where they are not paid well enough. Just because YOU did it "back in your day" doesn't mean that they have. Be an employer they like and pay them appropriately. There's no guarantee that ANYONE will stay at their job as long as you would like them to. Employment isn't slavery - people have choices.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 21:42
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Job hopping IS the new normal. Younger people recognize that companies won’t look out for them and fire them without notice if needed so they don’t feel any loyalty. I hopped around a bit while finding my footing after college (during the recession). It took a few jobs to find out what I really wanted to do and who I wanted to work for. I’d give them a chance but treat them well and make sure pay stays competitive otherwise they might leave after a year. I’d say they will likely stay longer in their next position because they worry about their resume and short tenures so it might work out.
That's fine. But you'll only get offers from use and dispose employers. The employers that are worth working for, that offer good benefits, that give good raises, are going to skip the job hoppers. Companies like that look for people with a record of staying at least long enough to both be productive and learn something. I look at a resume like that and wonder how much did the person learn about how to actually work post-college. It takes nearly a year to really learn how to do some of the tasks or skills that are not taught in college. So, for me and my company, whether it is the new normal or not, we are not hiring candidates like that. So, job hopping will cut down on the number of job opportunities that you'll have and you'll mostly get the job opportunities from places that aren't worth staying.
But if it works for you, great. I have plenty of decent candidates that have reliable work records to choose from. Different strokes (and employers) for everyone.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 20:43
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Job hopping IS the new normal. Younger people recognize that companies won’t look out for them and fire them without notice if needed so they don’t feel any loyalty. I hopped around a bit while finding my footing after college (during the recession). It took a few jobs to find out what I really wanted to do and who I wanted to work for. I’d give them a chance but treat them well and make sure pay stays competitive otherwise they might leave after a year. I’d say they will likely stay longer in their next position because they worry about their resume and short tenures so it might work out.
Agree. But even if you give them opportunities and competitive pay this person will probably tell you in six months that they want a promotion and then leave if they don’t get it by the one year mark. If they are Gen Z they will probably do this while mostly WFH, taking long vacations, asking for the company to fly them across the US for a conference that happens to be in the same location and date as their sister’s wedding, working one hour a day when they have a cold (instead of just taking a sick day…which they will have already used on mental health days where they hike and do laundry) and acting like they are heroic…
The person/people I’m describing were at my company before i got there.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 17:19
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me guess-she’s a super attractive young woman in a primarily make dominated field?
Being a woman in finance or tech is generally hard, attractive or not.
This person has an MBA, so she is on the deal making/sales side of any business, so being attractive is a definite plus and many more women participate.
Deal making has combative culture, I would say most women are not attuned to this type of style.
She’s hired to distract the alpha males in negotiations.
This is not a thing. You’re a misogynistic freak.
Looks the Vc photos, compare hotness of women to men.
https://www.businessinsider.com/this-20-year-old-vcs-party-gave-us-an-inside-look-at-stanfords-startup-culture-2012-3
This women was working VC at 19, let’s be real.
https://patch.com/california/menlopark-atherton/stanford-student-becomes-youngest-venture-capitalist
My oldest daughter at 23 is in marketing and is very nice, shy, quiet and extremely beautiful. She gets put at trade shows, goes to conferences, gets training classes a lot considering she is remote. Even in college they use her picture in campus ads and in campus tours. Even at graduation she was on the big screen more than once.
Her marketing team has a bunch of middle aged people. She may not realize it but they need her at meetings to sell
Anonymous
10/21/2023 16:24
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
I don't have a problem with a couple of instances of job hopping and do understand the lack of loyalty employees may feel toward their employer. I tell my own kids they have to do what's best for them.
But as an employer, it's a pain to hire and train someone to get them fully functioning in their position. Other staff mentor them and it's a drain on their time. And my experience has been what a couple of PPs mentioned - these folks aren't very good and leave before it becomes an issue.
But as an employer, it's a pain to hire and train someone to get them fully functioning in their position. Other staff mentor them and it's a drain on their time. And my experience has been what a couple of PPs mentioned - these folks aren't very good and leave before it becomes an issue.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 14:11
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
If you have no one qualified and this person is, take a chance, if you have multiple qualified candidates, go with one who stays at a job longer. I’m in a government agency that doesn’t hold people to their two year rotations, and I’ve been in place for nine months as a supervisor and I’ve had everyone rotate out. Their reasons for wanting another position are legit and don’t reflect badly on our environment, but they’ll be just as legit after a two year tour. I’m tired of getting people trained up and just as I can set and forget them in their roles, they move on. Drives me nuts.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 14:05
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me guess-she’s a super attractive young woman in a primarily make dominated field?
Being a woman in finance or tech is generally hard, attractive or not.
This person has an MBA, so she is on the deal making/sales side of any business, so being attractive is a definite plus and many more women participate.
Deal making has combative culture, I would say most women are not attuned to this type of style.
She’s hired to distract the alpha males in negotiations.
This is not a thing. You’re a misogynistic freak.
Looks the Vc photos, compare hotness of women to men.
https://www.businessinsider.com/this-20-year-old-vcs-party-gave-us-an-inside-look-at-stanfords-startup-culture-2012-3
This women was working VC at 19, let’s be real.
https://patch.com/california/menlopark-atherton/stanford-student-becomes-youngest-venture-capitalist
Anonymous
10/21/2023 13:57
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me guess-she’s a super attractive young woman in a primarily make dominated field?
Being a woman in finance or tech is generally hard, attractive or not.
This person has an MBA, so she is on the deal making/sales side of any business, so being attractive is a definite plus and many more women participate.
Deal making has combative culture, I would say most women are not attuned to this type of style.
She’s hired to distract the alpha males in negotiations.
This is not a thing. You’re a misogynistic freak.
The futures exchange in WFC in 1980s and 1990s some traders hired strippers to distract other traders and get orders executed quicker and cheaper. Really worked
Anonymous
10/21/2023 13:55
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Of course you have to job hop!
Get hired get a sign with RSUs that vest over time. Try to get promotion more bonus stock.
Then “rest and vest” then when sign-on vests ask for top up if not jump and repeat.
My last place had vesting on April 1. Annual vesting. I started new job first week April with sign-on. We always get people jumping on vest dates
It is a hire to fire model. Job before 120k sign in with a 18 month vest. I am taking a $6,666 pay cut starting month 19.
Get hired get a sign with RSUs that vest over time. Try to get promotion more bonus stock.
Then “rest and vest” then when sign-on vests ask for top up if not jump and repeat.
My last place had vesting on April 1. Annual vesting. I started new job first week April with sign-on. We always get people jumping on vest dates
It is a hire to fire model. Job before 120k sign in with a 18 month vest. I am taking a $6,666 pay cut starting month 19.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 13:35
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me guess-she’s a super attractive young woman in a primarily make dominated field?
Being a woman in finance or tech is generally hard, attractive or not.
This person has an MBA, so she is on the deal making/sales side of any business, so being attractive is a definite plus and many more women participate.
Deal making has combative culture, I would say most women are not attuned to this type of style.
She’s hired to distract the alpha males in negotiations.
This is not a thing. You’re a misogynistic freak.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 13:31
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me guess-she’s a super attractive young woman in a primarily make dominated field?
Being a woman in finance or tech is generally hard, attractive or not.
This person has an MBA, so she is on the deal making/sales side of any business, so being attractive is a definite plus and many more women participate.
Deal making has combative culture, I would say most women are not attuned to this type of style.
She’s hired to distract the alpha males in negotiations.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 13:23
Subject: Re:Job Hopping Candidates
But the people responding that job hopping is normal or to be expected in todays corporate climate are missing the point.
If you’re an employer and have the choice between someone who evidences a clear pattern of job hopping and one who doesn’t, the employer should pick the one who doesn’t.
It may be reasonable to job hop, but it doesn’t change the fact that, for most employers, that employee is likely worthless.
If you’re an employer and have the choice between someone who evidences a clear pattern of job hopping and one who doesn’t, the employer should pick the one who doesn’t.
It may be reasonable to job hop, but it doesn’t change the fact that, for most employers, that employee is likely worthless.
Anonymous
10/21/2023 12:47
Subject: Job Hopping Candidates
Anonymous wrote:Job hopping IS the new normal. Younger people recognize that companies won’t look out for them and fire them without notice if needed so they don’t feel any loyalty. I hopped around a bit while finding my footing after college (during the recession). It took a few jobs to find out what I really wanted to do and who I wanted to work for. I’d give them a chance but treat them well and make sure pay stays competitive otherwise they might leave after a year. I’d say they will likely stay longer in their next position because they worry about their resume and short tenures so it might work out.
This! Companies have destroyed any loyalty from employees. Loyalty must be a two-way street. Hey, it’s business.