Anonymous
Post 10/23/2023 10:16     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I was/am genuinely curious about this. Not opposed to it. The article made it sound cell phone based. It appears not to be. I wish that APS would do a better job of communicating and admitting problems. It appears they feel like there is a problem with kids leaving class. Perhaps describe the problem in more detail so that those of us on the outside could understand why this program is needed and may be helpful. Instead, APS pretends like it’s all perfect and yet those in the know understand the problem. And then perhap explain what the program is, what exactly it does, how it works, how/why it was successful at Kenmore, etc. I mean, really basic stuff. Instead, Arlnow is preprinting we are spending money on some random tracking program where parents think kids are taking iPads into bathrooms and teachers are spending all day monitoring bathroom breaks.


Or how about stop being so over the top reactionary.


OP was not over-reactionary. The original OP was a straightforward question, not a reaction. And OP's reflection here after reading others comments further reflect a sincere question and curiosity - not an over-reaction.

How about stopping with your overblown snark?
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2023 08:59     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I was/am genuinely curious about this. Not opposed to it. The article made it sound cell phone based. It appears not to be. I wish that APS would do a better job of communicating and admitting problems. It appears they feel like there is a problem with kids leaving class. Perhaps describe the problem in more detail so that those of us on the outside could understand why this program is needed and may be helpful. Instead, APS pretends like it’s all perfect and yet those in the know understand the problem. And then perhap explain what the program is, what exactly it does, how it works, how/why it was successful at Kenmore, etc. I mean, really basic stuff. Instead, Arlnow is preprinting we are spending money on some random tracking program where parents think kids are taking iPads into bathrooms and teachers are spending all day monitoring bathroom breaks.


Or how about stop being so over the top reactionary.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2023 06:02     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our schools are operating more and more like jails.


Yes. Minimal expectations of the kids coming in; accumulating policies and procedures imposed on all because of the relatively few; expected to be mature and responsible and ready for complete independence upon discharge.


I blame the well-meaning parents that have undermined the schools’ and teachers’ authority. Look at this situation- if we were actually allowed to deny a kid that’s abusing the privilege a bathroom pass, maybe we wouldn’t need all this.


I do believe (some) parents are part of the problem. But when I see how APS and other districts in very liberal localities misinterpret "equity" by lowering standards, how parents helicopter and believe their kids need to be protected from anything that might make them sneeze - and how that carries over to the schools and is exacerbated by teachers with the same perspective and school boards and administrations more focused on the political statements of the day rather than the best interest of effective education - I believe it's a far bigger problem than entitled bullying type parents.


Fair.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2023 22:39     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our schools are operating more and more like jails.


Yes. Minimal expectations of the kids coming in; accumulating policies and procedures imposed on all because of the relatively few; expected to be mature and responsible and ready for complete independence upon discharge.


I blame the well-meaning parents that have undermined the schools’ and teachers’ authority. Look at this situation- if we were actually allowed to deny a kid that’s abusing the privilege a bathroom pass, maybe we wouldn’t need all this.


I do believe (some) parents are part of the problem. But when I see how APS and other districts in very liberal localities misinterpret "equity" by lowering standards, how parents helicopter and believe their kids need to be protected from anything that might make them sneeze - and how that carries over to the schools and is exacerbated by teachers with the same perspective and school boards and administrations more focused on the political statements of the day rather than the best interest of effective education - I believe it's a far bigger problem than entitled bullying type parents.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2023 15:01     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our schools are operating more and more like jails.


Yes. Minimal expectations of the kids coming in; accumulating policies and procedures imposed on all because of the relatively few; expected to be mature and responsible and ready for complete independence upon discharge.


I blame the well-meaning parents that have undermined the schools’ and teachers’ authority. Look at this situation- if we were actually allowed to deny a kid that’s abusing the privilege a bathroom pass, maybe we wouldn’t need all this.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 14:15     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:Our schools are operating more and more like jails.


Yes. Minimal expectations of the kids coming in; accumulating policies and procedures imposed on all because of the relatively few; expected to be mature and responsible and ready for complete independence upon discharge.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 13:18     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Our schools are operating more and more like jails.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 11:56     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:I’m confused how you think the app would be used for anything other than hall passes? That is its one and only function.


From the minga website, as well as googling Minga and reading articles (some written by students in schools using Minga for their school newspapers) to see how Minga has been effective or not in places that have implemented it.

for example:
https://minga.io/
https://thevoice.srcs.org/8450/student-life/minga-controversy/
https://ihsvoice.com/2021/02/01/asg-investigation-week-minga/
https://www.change.org/p/minga

Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 09:47     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
I’m confused how you think the app would be used for anything other than hall passes? That is its one and only function.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 08:50     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:I am the OP and I was/am genuinely curious about this. Not opposed to it. The article made it sound cell phone based. It appears not to be. I wish that APS would do a better job of communicating and admitting problems. It appears they feel like there is a problem with kids leaving class. Perhaps describe the problem in more detail so that those of us on the outside could understand why this program is needed and may be helpful. Instead, APS pretends like it’s all perfect and yet those in the know understand the problem. And then perhap explain what the program is, what exactly it does, how it works, how/why it was successful at Kenmore, etc. I mean, really basic stuff. Instead, Arlnow is preprinting we are spending money on some random tracking program where parents think kids are taking iPads into bathrooms and teachers are spending all day monitoring bathroom breaks.


Exactly! Couldn't be written more precisely!
If APS would explain HOW the system will actually work, that it does NOT require students' cell phones or taking devices to the bathroom (which, by the way, the ARLNow article absolutely did not do and instead very much described a student phone system with the option of ipad/laptop instead) - there would be far less hullabaloo from an uninformed community. (I'm a parent)

Moreover, if APS would COMMIT to the app NOT being used beyond electronic hall passes, I'd be far less skeptical and opposed. As a digital hall pass system described in more detail by a few posters above (thank you for actually answering the question of how it specifically works), I have no issues or concerns. It's all a matter of (1) communication from APS and (2) how APS actually uses the app.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 08:23     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
I am the OP and I was/am genuinely curious about this. Not opposed to it. The article made it sound cell phone based. It appears not to be. I wish that APS would do a better job of communicating and admitting problems. It appears they feel like there is a problem with kids leaving class. Perhaps describe the problem in more detail so that those of us on the outside could understand why this program is needed and may be helpful. Instead, APS pretends like it’s all perfect and yet those in the know understand the problem. And then perhap explain what the program is, what exactly it does, how it works, how/why it was successful at Kenmore, etc. I mean, really basic stuff. Instead, Arlnow is preprinting we are spending money on some random tracking program where parents think kids are taking iPads into bathrooms and teachers are spending all day monitoring bathroom breaks.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 07:38     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
^ yep. People who work in schools get this. It’s a pain in the ass in some ways but the data is actually really helpful when trying to figure out why kids are failing, where drugs are coming from, who is in fights, etc.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 06:26     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
If someone is looking at the data, it’s actually super helpful. My admin runs reports on kids out of class over x minutes a week multiple weeks in a row and works with them to figure out what’s going on. When there was vandalism in a bathroom discovered to have happened between 1:20 and 1:40, they were able to pull passes from that time period and narrow the list of suspects. We use it for late passes too—if I hold a kid a few minutes late bc they’re finishing a test, I’ll send them to their next class on an electronic pass. That means kids can’t forge paper passes anymore.

I once had a girl ask to use the bathroom every single day at 10:35, claiming that was the time her “coffee kicked in and she just really needed to pee”. The electronic system helped to discover that her boyfriend was also doing the same so they could rendezvous during 3rd period.

If kids did what they’re supposed to do, we wouldn’t need it…but they don’t. This helps us find those who need more structure.

—hs teacher
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 06:14     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
I used to work in a school with an e-hall pass system. It’s not a big deal. The student requests a pass using their laptop or phone, the teacher approves it on a program that runs in the background of the laptop, and then the student can go. At this school, the device had to stay in the classroom - I usually had them place it on my desk. When the student came back, they tapped an “I’m back” button on their device.

I found it a bit annoying only because I had to stay near my laptop to approve requests.

Honestly, this wasn’t a big deal continuing the 20,000 other issues I faced as a teacher there. I don’t think this even made it on my radar of concerns.
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2023 04:24     Subject: APS new “hall pass system”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Over in the AEM discussion someone mentioned that kids wouldn’t bring devices to restrooms – they would just use the device to request a hall pass.

This seems like a colossal waste of everyone’s time.

The kid needs to pee. Does he ask the teacher before requesting via device or is the teacher supposed to be monitoring yet another thing while simultaneously teaching?

Ignoring the idiocy of the above procedure, and acknowledging that any form of bathroom request likely interrupts something, then the kid heads to the restroom. We all know the issues with bringing a device. But say the AEM poster was correct and kids bring nothing, if a staff member sees them in the hall, do they check the app in real time to see if the kid actually has a pass?

I’m genuinely curious. I can see a million issues with this and none of them solve the safety issue of a non-student being in the building or the ridiculous amount of extra work needed to teach the system that Larlo and Larla shouldn’t be granted passes at the same time because they’re dating this week and might go have sex in a stairwell.

This just seems like $50k that could have been used as paper chains to create a barrier around schools with more effectiveness.

Fans of this system, what am I missing?


Imagine you have the same high school kid that is leaving for 10 to 15 minutes every class period. So… potentially missing about an hour of instruction every day.

This might help everyone figure that out more quickly. Please remember that high school teachers often have multiple preps, and typically about 165 students apiece, if you count advisories (and you should).


I think teachers already generally know which students are frequently absent or leave class for extended periods of time. Maybe they don't know if an individual kid is leaving every class period; but they surely know how often, and for how long, from their own class. If it's someone who regularly does this, they could simply stop approving passes for these students.


In theory yes, but in reality, then their parents scream that they have anxiety about using the bathroom and to give them their passes back. Parents absolutely are the block to giving meaningful consequences anymore.

-hs teacher


How do the digital passes actually get kids to return to class sooner instead of wandering around or hanging out in the bathroom for 20 minutes? What oversight is happening in the halls and restrooms?


The passes themselves don’t. What they do is make it so that any staff who is monitoring in the hallway can say “What’s your name?” or “Show me your pass” and check their pass and see it’s been active for 15+ minutes so they can then tell the child to get back to class (or walk them there since it will say which teacher made the pass). Otherwise, a kid can wave a paper pass and look valid when in reality they have been out wandering for half an hour.

It’s also helpful for, unfortunately, the reality of dealing with kids who take substances at school and then have a medical emergency. I have called security and said “John left on a pass to the 300 hall bathroom 30 minutes ago and hasn’t returned. I’m concerned, can someone go check there.”