The GPAs are based on the time of the application right? So kids doing ED would have a slightly lower GPA with their end of Junior year grades. How much can a weighted GPA rise during the first semester of the Senior year?

Anonymous wrote:Is the GPA reported for University of Richmond unweighted? If not, seems pretty low.

It looks like most other schools report/consider weighted GPAs.

Privates usually report unweighted. There is not consistent grading across the by state or district. Districts may have 5.0 scales (unweighted) vs. the more standard 4.0 for instance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

What's the OOS proportion of the student body for UVA v. W&M?

Google says UVA 32% OOS. WM is 38%. So if anything the WM loan average should be larger.

How does that follow with more OOS at W&M? Not challenging you, just don't understand.

I believe the thought process is that OOS kids pay significantly more tuition. So, either they are wealthier and can absorb he extra 20k, or they have to borrow more than in state kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This stats aren’t really helpful, because they report the university as a whole. Many programs are either easier or more difficult. VT engineering is much higher than the numbers reported for VT as a whole.

Special programs everywhere usually require higher scores than the average at any college I would assume. However, they can serve as a general idea.

UVA has engineering too, and their average is still higher than Tech. W&M has no engineering, and they are right there with UVA. You will never have true apples to apples without all the details.

Just look at the college your kid is interested in how they'd fit into the general profile and then make adjustments for special programs and hooks.

Not really. For students looking at applying to VT, the average data is useless. Non competitive majors have lower acceptance data and engineering is much higher. Looking at the average data wouldn’t provide any assistance to see what a student needs to match a profile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

What's the OOS proportion of the student body for UVA v. W&M?

Google says UVA 32% OOS. WM is 38%. So if anything the WM loan average should be larger.

How does that follow with more OOS at W&M? Not challenging you, just don't understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA the highest test scores in the state. Obviously

50% of the entering class didn't submit SAT scores.

Pretty consistent across the board for the competitive publics (45% at Tech and W&M)

What's surprising to me is that only 30% of the entering class at Washington & Lee submitted SAT scores (and the percentiles were identical to UVA).

Do parents still think test optional is a fad?

NP, I did/do, but I've been wrong before.

Based on the prevailing stats, you're likely wrong on this too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA the highest test scores in the state. Obviously

50% of the entering class didn't submit SAT scores.

Pretty consistent across the board for the competitive publics (45% at Tech and W&M)

What's surprising to me is that only 30% of the entering class at Washington & Lee submitted SAT scores (and the percentiles were identical to UVA).

Do parents still think test optional is a fad?

NP, I did/do, but I've been wrong before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA the highest test scores in the state. Obviously

50% of the entering class didn't submit SAT scores.

Pretty consistent across the board for the competitive publics (45% at Tech and W&M)

What's surprising to me is that only 30% of the entering class at Washington & Lee submitted SAT scores (and the percentiles were identical to UVA).

Do parents still think test optional is a fad?

Anonymous wrote:Is the GPA reported for University of Richmond unweighted? If not, seems pretty low.

It looks like most other schools report/consider weighted GPAs.

I think it must be unweighted.

UVA’s DeanJ says that they report GPA bc they have to but that it doesn’t tell you much.

Is the GPA reported for University of Richmond unweighted? If not, seems pretty low.

It looks like most other schools report/consider weighted GPAs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

NOPE

Oh, shoot you are right; this is what I get for jumping the gun. They only get a research stipend and other non-monetary perks. Seems similar to UVA in those perks.

W&M scholarship though does cover it, unless my reading skills have totally abandoned me.

Monroe at W&M is similar to Echols/Rodman at UVA and provides flexibility on requirements and a research stipend, but not tuition and is based on merit.

1693 Scholars at W&M are similar to Jefferson Scholars at UVA and are also based on merit. It funds tuition and some other things. Both are funded by and managed by foundations external to the schools. These are relatively limited in number, probably more so for 1693 program as it is more recent. (W&L has the biggest merit scholarship program in the state on a percentage of class basis, with at least 10% of the incoming class receiving tuition and room and board through the Johnson Scholars program.)

The Common Data Sets contain a line that specifies the number of students without financial need who were awarded non-need based scholarships (excluding athletic awards). The number for W&M for all undergraduates was 382 and for UVA was 1108. UVA has about 2.7X as many undergraduates, so the UVA merit number is slightly higher on a proportional basis.

I suspect the PP who quoted a big disparity in student debt didn't have the right numbers. I think they are similar. Merit aid is not a significant factor. Many who get merit would not have gotten financial aid.

If you think the debt numbers are incorrect, check the SCHEV report for the two specific schools. The data is right there. You don’t even have to calculate it. I agree that it’s surprising that UVA students carry more than twice the debt. WM is more expensive and takes a greater % out of state. But the summers are what they are. Take 2 minutes and checked them yourself.

Anonymous wrote:I was digging into the data. For 2021-2022 grads, roughly the same percentage of the class graduated with student loans— roughly 1/3 of grades. But the average total loans from WM were $21,000 for a BA. For UVA it is $51,000 for a BA. That’s a huge difference.

Why is that? W&M is more expensive in state and less expensive OOS. Is W&M better with financial aid? Or is it that it’s a small SLAC like school and students are self selecting and just more affluent? I would have predicted WM students to have more debt because most students are in state.

I don't think this is right and I can't find it. I suspect they are fairly close in debt amount. The schools have similar, but somewhat different approaches on aid. Merit is funded by external foundations at both. Financial aid at UVA is need blind overall, while W&M is need-blind only for in state. W&M has more focus on lowering net cost for in-state lower- to middle-income families (up to $110K/yr.), as can be seen on a summary from net cost calculators.

https://tamingthehighcostofcollege.com/net-price-of-virginia-colleges-by-income/

Anonymous wrote:One thing you have to remember about UVA is the huge tuition difference depending on the school your student is in. I don’t know if that’s the same for W&M. My DS had to take a loan this year because he’s in the Batten school now and it’s about a $9k increase per year over the college of arts and sciences. His EFC is $40k and that is also his cost of attendance.

Also UVA is much larger than W&M so not sure it’s even worth comparing the total debt in that way. They take less in state students and it’s a small liberal arts type college in a public school body.

Sure, but WM is cost of attendance just over $40k for everyone. And yet less than half the debt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many full ride scholarships does W&M give out each year? What about UVA?

Roughly top 10% at W&M get the Monroe scholarship, which covers 100% in-state tuition.
Then there is the W&M scholarship which also cover 100% in-state tuition. There is another initiative for Pell grant receivers also, but not sure how their budget can do it all at the same time with the multiple construction projects. We shall see.

https://news.wm.edu/2022/09/23/wm-commits-to-cover-full-tuition-and-fees-for-all-in-state-pell-grant-recipients/
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/

NOPE

+1. Monroe gets a stipend for summer study one year and housing preference. $0 towards tuition, room and board.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]This stats aren’t really helpful, because they report the university as a whole. Many programs are either easier or more difficult. VT engineering is much higher than the numbers reported for VT as a whole. [/quote]

Special programs everywhere usually require higher scores than the average at any college I would assume. However, they can serve as a general idea.

UVA has engineering too, and their average is still higher than Tech. W&M has no engineering, and they are right there with UVA. You will never have true apples to apples without all the details.

Just look at the college your kid is interested in how they'd fit into the general profile and then make adjustments for special programs and hooks.

[/quote]

Wow. W&M with no engineering actually has almost identical SATs and GPAs as UVA— and higher 75% GPAs. And identical ACTs. With about the Sam percentage of kids reporting test scores. So much for being a second chance for kids not admitted to UVA. [/quote]

Nice try.

UVA is more competitive. Period. [/quote]

Since 2017, yes. That was when UVA saw a sizable bump in their applications.
Both have seen an about equal drop from their pre-covid acceptance rate so for '21/'22 with TO.

[b]One campus fits more the all-american expectation with size, location and sports, while the other seem generally more regarded as either 'hate it or love it'. [/b]

However, the caliber and peers at each school are pretty much equals. Just looking for different flavors.
[/quote]

I think it is clearly fair to say UVA has broader appeal (but not universal) while William and Mary is more niche. They can be viewed as complementary in that way.

However, I don't think your way of describing this is quite right. UVA is actually significantly larger than the average size for higher education (W&M is closer to the average size). here are only 69 schools in Power 5 athletic conferences, which excludes the large majority of universities and significantly many of the highest ranked colleges and most selective colleges. I think many kids might also prefer more urban locations these days. Describing William and Mary as "hate it or love it" seems a bit off since you could say that about any school, particularly those with LAC-type traits. The strength of similar schools that they may appeal strongly to a segment and do not try to be one size fits all.