Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:57     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:So if MAP isn’t a good test to determine who should be accelerated, which test is? Cogat?


Yes, actually. And another thread said it’s planned for 2nd graders this year. So I don’t know why you wouldn’t bring it back as a tool and data point for 5th graders.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:56     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:This basically says that MCPS is doing this wrong, and should not have given the 5th graders the 6+ test...

https://connection.nwea.org/s/article/Transition-student-from-2-5-to-6-Reading-or-Math-test-1405101729354?language=en_US


I mean, the kids in compacted have not even been exposed to the 6th grade content yet this semester. Clearly MCPS is doing the wrong thing here. The question is why. What is their rationale? I could understand it if given in the spring, although I still think if you’re trying to evaluate growth you give the same version within a single school year. But to administer it in the fall seems literally ridiculous.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:55     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
So if MAP isn’t a good test to determine who should be accelerated, which test is? Cogat?
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:55     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this thread is “whining about MAP 6” as much as asking how Mcps plans to evaluate kids for the magnet fairly when they are giving two different tests. Asking that question is fair. Of course, parents can also ask for more advanced and accelerated instruction in all middle schools too. But it’s not as if they are only allowed more in one area. Admissions to the magnet should be transparent, and middle school curriculum should meet all students where they are. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.


These tests have different percentiles based on the grade of the student so evaluating students fairly is simple.


But they are giving 5th graders a 6th grade test!!!!


Only some fifth graders. Right? Isn’t that the problem?
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:34     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
This basically says that MCPS is doing this wrong, and should not have given the 5th graders the 6+ test...

https://connection.nwea.org/s/article/Transition-student-from-2-5-to-6-Reading-or-Math-test-1405101729354?language=en_US
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:22     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing there will be a separate lottery for the CM students and the regular, each being in the top 15 percentile in each group? Otherwise it’s apples and oranges and wouldn’t make sense. This is pure speculation—I have no idea how this will affect the lottery.


That really wouldn't make sense - then about half the students who are selected for the math/science magnet would not have taken compacted math. Yet the math in the magnets is harder than the math in AIM, which is compacted 7/8. Kids who haven't done 6th grade math shouldn't be in the math/science magnet pool.


This then comes back to another person’s question up thread saying maybe they are only considering those in compacted math for the math magnet. I don’t think that’s out of the question. It seems like you would be setting a kid up to fail if they jumped from regular 5th grade math to the magnet.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:16     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this thread is “whining about MAP 6” as much as asking how Mcps plans to evaluate kids for the magnet fairly when they are giving two different tests. Asking that question is fair. Of course, parents can also ask for more advanced and accelerated instruction in all middle schools too. But it’s not as if they are only allowed more in one area. Admissions to the magnet should be transparent, and middle school curriculum should meet all students where they are. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.


These tests have different percentiles based on the grade of the student so evaluating students fairly is simple.


But they are giving 5th graders a 6th grade test!!!!
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 14:07     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this thread is “whining about MAP 6” as much as asking how Mcps plans to evaluate kids for the magnet fairly when they are giving two different tests. Asking that question is fair. Of course, parents can also ask for more advanced and accelerated instruction in all middle schools too. But it’s not as if they are only allowed more in one area. Admissions to the magnet should be transparent, and middle school curriculum should meet all students where they are. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.


These tests have different percentiles based on the grade of the student so evaluating students fairly is simple.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:56     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing there will be a separate lottery for the CM students and the regular, each being in the top 15 percentile in each group? Otherwise it’s apples and oranges and wouldn’t make sense. This is pure speculation—I have no idea how this will affect the lottery.


Not really; NWEA RIT scores have percentages based on grade level. I haven't seen data for 5th graders taking the 6th grade test but it likely exists and can be applied.


But they presume grade 5 kids are taking the appropriate test, not one for middle schoolers.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:55     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:They started doing this in spring of last year. I think it's the same across the county. The 6+ test is better for kids in a county where most kids are above national averagem


It was done only in the spring and only for kids enrolled in 5/6. For fall and winter, the ES MAP was used.

OP, I think this will put kids in 5/6 taking the MS test at a disadvantage for the math/sci/computer sci magnet. My kids score (which was admittedly very high on the ES test) dropped more than 20 points. I would reach out to central office about this.


What was the percentile change? Dropping from 99+ to 95 won't change lottery eligibility.

There isn't a huge cohort of kids who are bad at math it has parents gunning for the magnet. The striver parents already have their kids in CM 5/6. The others don't want their kids to get on a bus so they skip Math 6 and Math 7.


Percentile went form 99th to something much lower - I think around 82nd.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:54     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing there will be a separate lottery for the CM students and the regular, each being in the top 15 percentile in each group? Otherwise it’s apples and oranges and wouldn’t make sense. This is pure speculation—I have no idea how this will affect the lottery.


That really wouldn't make sense - then about half the students who are selected for the math/science magnet would not have taken compacted math. Yet the math in the magnets is harder than the math in AIM, which is compacted 7/8. Kids who haven't done 6th grade math shouldn't be in the math/science magnet pool.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:52     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this thread is “whining about MAP 6” as much as asking how Mcps plans to evaluate kids for the magnet fairly when they are giving two different tests. Asking that question is fair. Of course, parents can also ask for more advanced and accelerated instruction in all middle schools too. But it’s not as if they are only allowed more in one area. Admissions to the magnet should be transparent, and middle school curriculum should meet all students where they are. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.


The thing is that math is the ONLY subject in which every kid will be met where they are. I understand the argument about computer science and science not being accelerated at home schools, but every single middle school offers an appropriate math class for a child who has finished Math 5/6.

It's advocacy in a meaningless direction, because if your focus is on MAP M scores, then MCPS can easily say that the appropriate curriculum is already available.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:51     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Are kids in Math 5 also taking the 6+ test? Or is it just kids in 5/6?
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:43     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
I don’t think this thread is “whining about MAP 6” as much as asking how Mcps plans to evaluate kids for the magnet fairly when they are giving two different tests. Asking that question is fair. Of course, parents can also ask for more advanced and accelerated instruction in all middle schools too. But it’s not as if they are only allowed more in one area. Admissions to the magnet should be transparent, and middle school curriculum should meet all students where they are. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2023 13:09     Subject: 5th graders taking 6th grade map m
Anonymous wrote:I alluded to this in another thread, but if MCPS were to simply offer an ELC of sorts for MS students, this would eliminate a lot of the “do or die” high stakes competition + lottery for the MS magnet that has even fewer seats than CES.

It would not take a rocket scientist to teach a MS “ELC” class—most of those teachers currently teaching English for MS I’m sure would be able to step up the rigor.

Before ELC was extended to most ESs, CES was a big deal, but now it’s probably preferable to do ELC in your home school because it is not in a higher poverty school. Honestly I’m relieved my kid is not going to their designated CES because the school looks like it’s in a trailer park and my parents would have been alarmed for their grandkid.


I mean, let's leave aside the gross nature of your last sentence for a minute and focus on the "ELC for MS" idea. MCPS had that until about four years ago. Honors English was different than grade-level English and the Honors English kids were asked to read and analyze higher level texts. Then, they got it into their heads that Honors English was inequitable, so they made all section of English into "Honors" through grade 10. So, your options are Honors English, Honors English for English Language Learners, and Honors English for Inclusion.

Rather than whinging about kids taking MAP 6+, I really wish the parents on this board would get their heads in the game and focus on something that MCPS might be willing to reconsider.