Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

We have not found forced therapy to be helpful, pretty much ever. And not for lack of trying.

PP above you. "Force" was the wrong word. I guess I meant strongly coax/encourage her to try it. Up until now we have just casually offered it as something that might help.

We've coaxed/encouraged/bribed/negotiated. It's been enough to get her to attend the appointments, listen politely, and then do her best to forget everything they talked about because talking about her anxiety made her more anxious. I have no solution, but if your kid is as strong-willed as mine (and maybe you're lucky and she's not!) there's no getting her to meaningfully participate if it isn't her choice.

Sometimes it starts taking the meds first before they can even begin to entertain the idea of therapy. It did for my child. He is on meds now and actually asking to start therapy where before he was very much not going to do it.

Yes, it will make her life and your lives better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

We have not found forced therapy to be helpful, pretty much ever. And not for lack of trying.

PP above you. "Force" was the wrong word. I guess I meant strongly coax/encourage her to try it. Up until now we have just casually offered it as something that might help.

We've coaxed/encouraged/bribed/negotiated. It's been enough to get her to attend the appointments, listen politely, and then do her best to forget everything they talked about because talking about her anxiety made her more anxious. I have no solution, but if your kid is as strong-willed as mine (and maybe you're lucky and she's not!) there's no getting her to meaningfully participate if it isn't her choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find the root cause.

They did. It's anxiety.

Anxiety is the symptom not the cause. Depression is the symptom not the cause. The root is the underlying reasons for why the symptoms are occurring. Any therapist or doctor will tell you this.

Also not sure why you’re fighting over he anxiety. That’s like fighting with someone who is super stressed. Would you just start yelling at them?

Get help for your daughter and possibly for yourself.

I'm not OP but I am the one you're responding to. My father was depressed and anxious and I have been my whole life. I think I know what I'm talking about. sometimes people are depressed because of their genetics. There is no underlying cause, no problem to solve. Sure, therapy can help in conjunction with meds. Sometimes, therapy is all people need. But more often than not the BEST course of treatment is therapy AND meds (plus good eating, exercise and sleeping habits). And, no, any therapist or doctor will absolutely not tell you that they are just symptoms and not the cause.

And I wasn't yelling. I just corrected you.

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

Would she consider books? There are some good books about anxiety and social dynamics for middle school kids that might be helpful and feel more accessible than therapy.

As a parent of a kiddo with social anxiety we're found therapy particularly difficult. Our child is already anxious about talking to people, so the odds that she's going to talk with even the most well-meaning, kind therapist about the things that make her the most anxious are approximately zero. At a weekly appointment pace it would likely take YEARS before she reached that comfort level, if she ever got there. (In fourth grade she finally talked to the school speech therapist about the social worries - and that was after seeing her weekly since kindergarten.) And it would be a battle to get her to go to the appointments every week. For now we have chosen to get coaching for us in supporting her, along with books and other resources that she can access without triggering her anxiety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find the root cause.

They did. It's anxiety.

not helpful.

What is triggering her anxiety?

My DD has anxiety, usually brought on by stressful situations, but the anxiety doesn't hit till days later, and always at night when she's trying to sleep. Her mind is till, and quiet, and this is when her mind tries to process all the stressful events in her life. That's when her anxiety hits.

DD was in therapy. She had this issue since a traumatic event in ES. She's now 15, and she's gotten a lot better. When it hits at night, I climb into her bed, hold her, and talk her though it. During the day, we do talk therapy where we talk through the stressful events, and what would happen if... I think that has helped her and put her mind at ease.

For us, medicating is the absolute last resort and only if her anxiety becomes so great that it is impacting her day to day life. She's not there, and hopefully, won't ever be.

I suggest you educate yourself a lot more about anxiety. Sometimes people are just anxious by nature. You trying to make her feel like she failed (LAST RESORT!!) to manage her anxiety is super unhelpful to anyone with anxiety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

We have not found forced therapy to be helpful, pretty much ever. And not for lack of trying.

PP above you. "Force" was the wrong word. I guess I meant strongly coax/encourage her to try it. Up until now we have just casually offered it as something that might help.

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

We have not found forced therapy to be helpful, pretty much ever. And not for lack of trying.

I’m in a similar boat OP. Except ours doesn’t even want therapy. She’s 12. She is really struggling with a lot of the social dynamics of middle school. She’s such a sweet kid and it’s hard to watch her struggle. It’s also hard on my older DD as we try to manage the younger one’s issues. I think it is likely interfering with their ability to have a close relationship. Breaks my heart. I don’t know if we should force her to therapy - we are considering it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bare knuckled my way through CBT etc. and didn't find relief until I tried medication. The medication helped me access the skills I was learning in therapy. Before the medication, therapy was just white noise and something I was hearing but not internalizing. Anxiety is easily treated with fluoxetine (Prozac), which is also easy to discontinue if needed. Talk to her doctor about your options.

This has been our experience with our child. He’s not NT, and anxiety isn’t his only issue, but some people need meds while they learn to use the coping skills therapy teaches them. This isn’t bad, it’s treatment.

I wouldn’t recommend meds without therapy, but if therapy alone isn’t enough you should have a conversation with your daughters medical providers about what the next steps are to help her feel better. It can take time to find the right medication, but it’s well worth at least a conversation.

This. Sometimes there’s a fog of depression, or a vicious cycle of constant anxiety and self-recrimination, that keeps someone from accessing the tools the therapist is offering. And all the talk therapy in the world can’t penetrate it. Depression and anxiety lie, and they lie loudly and persistently.

Some people do need to be on medication for a longer period of time, but it can sometimes be a short-term aid to building the skills and self-awareness they’ll need for long-term stability. You won’t know until you try.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find the root cause.

They did. It's anxiety.

not helpful.

What is triggering her anxiety?

My DD has anxiety, usually brought on by stressful situations, but the anxiety doesn't hit till days later, and always at night when she's trying to sleep. Her mind is till, and quiet, and this is when her mind tries to process all the stressful events in her life. That's when her anxiety hits.

DD was in therapy. She had this issue since a traumatic event in ES. She's now 15, and she's gotten a lot better. When it hits at night, I climb into her bed, hold her, and talk her though it. During the day, we do talk therapy where we talk through the stressful events, and what would happen if... I think that has helped her and put her mind at ease.

For us, medicating is the absolute last resort and only if her anxiety becomes so great that it is impacting her day to day life. She's not there, and hopefully, won't ever be.

Ok, but what happens in a few years when she's off at college where stressful situations are increased and the ability for mom to climb in bed for comfort is zero?

PP here.. yes, I do worry about that, and mentioned it to DD.

She feels she can handle it, especially as she gets more mature. We'll have to see how it goes. As I said, I'm not ruling out rx completely, just that it's not the go to unless it impacts her day to day life.

I’m not objecting to your approach but it’s clearly wrong to claim it’s not affecting her day to day life. If a 15 yo needs her mom to get in bed with her and talk her down and hold her, it’s absolutely affecting her day to day life—nighttime is part of life. As someone who was very involved in helping to regulate my anxious and depressed teen, I’ll say that in the longer run it wasn’t good for either of us or our relationship. It’s not really appropriate because a teen should be developing their own coping skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The person that said ADHD was the underlying issue is not lying. Many girls that had teen anxiety get diagnosed with ADHD as adults.

It’s a real thing

If you do start medication, this is very much something to watch for. Our developmental pediatrician explained to us that for many kids, the hyper-vigalance of anxiety provides a check that keeps ADHD symptoms under control. When you remove the anxiety, you may also remove that control and the ADHD will come through.

Exactly. Just because the underlying cause is probably ADHD doesn't mean you don't medicate. But the fact is that girls are VERY good at coping with ADHD symptoms and appearing normal in early school. Once puberty hits and schools gets more complex with more/harder classes, you start to see what you and even your DD will think is anxiety. I mean because really, being a new hormonal girl is INCREDIBLY hard. Boys get mean and girls get meaner and you feel like everything is not what it once was and your body and your mind is out of control. You are being judged 24/7 and peer pressure on top of trying to appear in control when your ADHD has other plans, is terrifying.

Therapy alone will never work for kids like this. They need structure, exercise, and a ton of downtime to de-stress. They need 9-10hrs of sleep, great nutrition, and a lot of natural supplements. And if that isn't working, try an anti-anxiety med. But also look for a full ADHD evaluation and rule that out too.

Anonymous wrote:I bare knuckled my way through CBT etc. and didn't find relief until I tried medication. The medication helped me access the skills I was learning in therapy. Before the medication, therapy was just white noise and something I was hearing but not internalizing. Anxiety is easily treated with fluoxetine (Prozac), which is also easy to discontinue if needed. Talk to her doctor about your options.

This has been our experience with our child. He’s not NT, and anxiety isn’t his only issue, but some people need meds while they learn to use the coping skills therapy teaches them. This isn’t bad, it’s treatment.

I wouldn’t recommend meds without therapy, but if therapy alone isn’t enough you should have a conversation with your daughters medical providers about what the next steps are to help her feel better. It can take time to find the right medication, but it’s well worth at least a conversation.

I am a person whose kid started medication in the past 6 months at age 12. When she was at her lowest depression/anxiety point last year, I was concerned that she was so in her head and self-centered that she would always bring negativity to our family, that we'd always be walking on eggshells around her, and that the black hole of her energy suck would affect all of her current and future relationships

I had a bad day at work yesterday. She sat down and chatted with me at dinner, sharing funny stories to help lift my mood. She offered a bunch of unsolicited hugs. My kid - the one who was buried in a brain full of worry - is back.
There are still ebbs and flows, but it feels like a miracle given where we were.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find the root cause.

They did. It's anxiety.

Anxiety is the symptom not the cause. Depression is the symptom not the cause. The root is the underlying reasons for why the symptoms are occurring. Any therapist or doctor will tell you this.

Also not sure why you’re fighting over he anxiety. That’s like fighting with someone who is super stressed. Would you just start yelling at them?

Get help for your daughter and possibly for yourself.