Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 21:51     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For all but the independently wealthy, college is for ROI.


Just because this is your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact. A SLAC would have taught you that.


No, it’s a fact. Full stop. Housing prices and the rising cost of living have determined this.


NP--Saying full stop doesn't make it a fact, either.


Fwiw, Princeton Review has Carleton 18th and St Olaf 46th for ROI amongst privates, though these sorts of rankings are problematic given regional cost of living and area of study differences across schools.

https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=top-50-best-value-colleges-private-schools
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 21:41     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For all but the independently wealthy, college is for ROI.


Just because this is your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact. A SLAC would have taught you that.


No, it’s a fact. Full stop. Housing prices and the rising cost of living have determined this.


NP--Saying full stop doesn't make it a fact, either.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 20:17     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
I don't understand the obsession with ROI and high paying jobs on this board. It's all fear based. Plenty of people without trust funds major in education or social work and live full lives. But maybe they don't drive fancy cars and take expensive ski vacations every year. This area is so out of touch with how most Americans live.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 20:12     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Yes, Mayo is an excellent opportunity, being nearby, but still a 45 minute drive away. No doubt pre-meds take advantage of it, though. I don't know if that's true or not at St. Olaf, but they do have a January term that can be taken on or off campus, offering up an equivalent number of weeks. Mostly kids go home for the holidays though, as dorms close.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 20:07     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For all but the independently wealthy, college is for ROI.


Just because this is your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact. A SLAC would have taught you that.


No, it’s a fact. Full stop. Housing prices and the rising cost of living have determined this.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 19:53     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:Rochester is still a good drive from Northfield during snowy times. I bet there are summer opportunities too though.


True, but Carleton actually has two windows for full-time off-campus internships. Their winter break is actually 6-7 weeks. They make a point to help students find short term opportunities in the winter in the hopes they lead to longer gigs in the summer. Also, not all internships require full-time, on-site presence; it's not uncommon to schedule classes for M/W/F with Tu/Th off.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 19:13     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:For all but the independently wealthy, college is for ROI.


Just because this is your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact. A SLAC would have taught you that.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 18:32     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Excited to see this thread ..want to learn more about Carlton and Macalester

How important is Demonstrates interest in terms of visiting ? It’s pretty far, so wonder if we could visit after admission if child were accepted


Admissions consultant here. Three of my students applied early action to Macalester last year. Applying early action definitely gives students a leg up. Two of these students prepped (researched) for and took advantage of offers of optional Zoom interviews, and none visited before admission (except online).

[Macalester, Carleton, and St. Olaf also offer free fly-in programs each fall for students from traditionally underrepresented groups. Students need to apply in advance.]

We learned that Macalester's merit aid ranged from about $1,000 to $23,000 in 2022.

My Mac applicant who didn't interview received a merit offer of ~ $84,000 over four years, but $0 from the peer SLAC she also applied to under an early action option. The applicant was interested in premed pathways.


BTW: Macalester admitted all three early action applicants. None chose to attend a SLAC (so the choices weren't among comparables).


Did they submit test scores? My 4.0 UW, high rigor, great leadership/EC kid will be applying EA TO; trying to gauge admissions chances and merit possibilities.


The one offered the merit $$$ did. Cumulative ACT above 35/36 with 36/36 in science. The two admitted without merit aid didn’t. However, many of my TO students receive (relatively) great merit aid offers. Rigor of curriculum and AP exam scores can help TO students.



Curious what other schools these kids were looking at …my dd is sort of intrigued by Mac and Carleton but neither would be a top Choice for her …she is trying to work on her list


My son EDed to Carleton. Was also considering UChicago but found the community at Carleton much friendlier during the visit and wanted a closer relationship with profs.


These applications were quite specific to students' intended majors, since they knew what they wanted to study but hadn't figured out some of the rest. Two applications were to international universities charging less tuition than comparable unis in the United States, then to a few T20-30s, flagships, one other private SLAC, and one public SLAC. One student's intended major meant she dipped lower than T30s for T10s for that subject; she was admitted with merit aid, but insufficient aid for her parents' budget, to all but one U.S. institution apart from Macalester. Two families ultimately were wary of SLACS and data on their positive outcomes, and more interested in prestige.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 18:28     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not sure why Grinnell isn’t on this list. It’s better than St Olaf and Macalester academically, in the same league as Carleton, has a lot more money than any of them and is much more generous with merit aid, and attracts the same type of student.


It aims to compete with Carleton but isn't quite there.

But OP seemed to have some particular interest in Minnesota.


Lol of course it’s “right there.” There’s a ton of cross applicants and many choose Grinnell over Carleton in the end. Including my own kid.


I have no idea how accurate the below link is, nor do I think people should base a college decision based on it, but I think it's probably true that more pick Carleton than the other way around. Given that Grinnell has had far more money for decades, my best guess is this comes down to the location of Grinnell being considerably less desirable. But for the record I think both are great schools and consider themselves peers. To date the experts seem to consistently give an edge to Carleton, but of course expert opinions are just one factor when considering colleges.

https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Carleton+College&with=Grinnell+College
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 18:16     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:Carleton definitely has more physical science majors, but numbers are flipped for biological sciences, with Macalester having three times more, which is curious. Maybe being in the city helps with pre-med shadowing and internships. Rochester is still a good drive from Northfield during snowy times. I bet there are summer opportunities too though. And Carleton does have top notch grad school placement in most all the sciences if that is in their future.

If history is an interest, St. Olaf has their Conversations programs: Asian, America, Environmental, Enduring Questions. These are sequential, cross-curricular programs of 3-5 classes. Enrolled freshman are grouped in the same dorm. My STEM kid was able to meet most humanities core requirements in his Enduring Questions classes (kind of a great books/western civ approach which is probably falling out of fashion). The reading lists were extensive but it turned out to be a fascinating, self selected group of students.

Honestly, I adore all three of these schools. My daughter will tour them all and I'm curious to see which she likes best. She really liked Grinnell when we toured, for what it's worth. My son did no school tours because of Covid. Maybe go in February. It does get cold there. But the coldest days are the sunniest.


Hmm, not sure where you are getting the life sciences data, but Mac does not have three times the percentage (or number since they are nearly the same size school) of Carleton. Here's how the three compare on life sciences using the same measures and links as before. Again, this is intended to be data worth considering, not some end-all ranking. Students should pick the school that fits them best when taking *everything* into account.

Carleton: 10.6% of majors; PhD rate 5th

Mac: 14% of majors; PhD rate 48th

St Olaf: 11.5% of majors; PhD rate 29th
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 17:42     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
My life sciences urban loving kid liked Mac

My natural sciences loving who cares where it’s at likes Carleton

They are both very cold and snowy and midwestern, for better or worse.

Mac offered a ton of aid- bringing it down to cheaper than our state school. I think Carleton is less likely to give big aid? But maybe for the right kid?

Good luck, OP!
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 17:40     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not sure why Grinnell isn’t on this list. It’s better than St Olaf and Macalester academically, in the same league as Carleton, has a lot more money than any of them and is much more generous with merit aid, and attracts the same type of student.


It aims to compete with Carleton but isn't quite there.

But OP seemed to have some particular interest in Minnesota.


Lol of course it’s “right there.” There’s a ton of cross applicants and many choose Grinnell over Carleton in the end. Including my own kid.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 17:37     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Carleton definitely has more physical science majors, but numbers are flipped for biological sciences, with Macalester having three times more, which is curious. Maybe being in the city helps with pre-med shadowing and internships. Rochester is still a good drive from Northfield during snowy times. I bet there are summer opportunities too though. And Carleton does have top notch grad school placement in most all the sciences if that is in their future.

If history is an interest, St. Olaf has their Conversations programs: Asian, America, Environmental, Enduring Questions. These are sequential, cross-curricular programs of 3-5 classes. Enrolled freshman are grouped in the same dorm. My STEM kid was able to meet most humanities core requirements in his Enduring Questions classes (kind of a great books/western civ approach which is probably falling out of fashion). The reading lists were extensive but it turned out to be a fascinating, self selected group of students.

Honestly, I adore all three of these schools. My daughter will tour them all and I'm curious to see which she likes best. She really liked Grinnell when we toured, for what it's worth. My son did no school tours because of Covid. Maybe go in February. It does get cold there. But the coldest days are the sunniest.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 16:44     Subject: Re:St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Perhaps of interest to the parent of the biochem student is Mayo Clinic's proximity (about an hour from Northfield and 90 min from Macalester.) Beyond on campus research opportunities, it is fairly common, at least for Carleton students, to pursue internships at Mayo Clinic.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2023 16:37     Subject: St. Olaf, Macalester, Carleton: thoughts, differences, experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Excited to see this thread ..want to learn more about Carlton and Macalester

How important is Demonstrates interest in terms of visiting ? It’s pretty far, so wonder if we could visit after admission if child were accepted


Admissions consultant here. Three of my students applied early action to Macalester last year. Applying early action definitely gives students a leg up. Two of these students prepped (researched) for and took advantage of offers of optional Zoom interviews, and none visited before admission (except online).

[Macalester, Carleton, and St. Olaf also offer free fly-in programs each fall for students from traditionally underrepresented groups. Students need to apply in advance.]

We learned that Macalester's merit aid ranged from about $1,000 to $23,000 in 2022.

My Mac applicant who didn't interview received a merit offer of ~ $84,000 over four years, but $0 from the peer SLAC she also applied to under an early action option. The applicant was interested in premed pathways.


BTW: Macalester admitted all three early action applicants. None chose to attend a SLAC (so the choices weren't among comparables).


Did they submit test scores? My 4.0 UW, high rigor, great leadership/EC kid will be applying EA TO; trying to gauge admissions chances and merit possibilities.


The one offered the merit $$$ did. Cumulative ACT above 35/36 with 36/36 in science. The two admitted without merit aid didn’t. However, many of my TO students receive (relatively) great merit aid offers. Rigor of curriculum and AP exam scores can help TO students.



Curious what other schools these kids were looking at …my dd is sort of intrigued by Mac and Carleton but neither would be a top Choice for her …she is trying to work on her list


My son EDed to Carleton. Was also considering UChicago but found the community at Carleton much friendlier during the visit and wanted a closer relationship with profs.