Anonymous
09/12/2023 13:14
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
It seems like you can’t simply answer the question.
Why should you get to decide or the school get to decide and not family or the student?
Also, how does limiting the number of apps help the whole student body? That makes absolutely no sense.
And how is a family supposed to know that this is even going to matter when they are choosing a high school?
NP here. DC is at an independent school that limits to 12. This is to allow students to choose colleges wisely and to spend time tailoring essays to each specific school. My educated guess is that students at independent schools tend to apply more frequently to SLACs than public school kids, which means that their applications will be reviewed more in depth, so the quality of essays matter much more than applying to a large state school. Limiting the number of apps helps the student body because colleges do limit the number of acceptances for each HS. Only the kids who really see themselves attending a particular college will apply there and will not be competing with stronger applicants who are applying just to see if they can get in, but will likely turn that college down. This doesn't seem, btw, to affect the stronger students, who get into great schools. Given that 100% of students at our HS attend college, this approach doesn't appear to hurt admissions.
Honestly, any student and/or parent looking at HSs should be asking questions about college admissions processes.
Still doesn't answer why it should not be up to the student and their family.
While I understand your point about colleges accepting only a certain number from each HS, and you admit it is a zero sum game, it seems this policy does not help "the student body as a whole" but rather helps some but hurts others somewhat randomly. Certainly no more fairly and probably less so since it is a limitation.
There is no justification for it. Let students apply where they want. Why is that so hard?
Many people have answered your question, you just disagree with the answer.
It comes down to schools have their reasons for the policy. You are welcome to disagree and go to a different school or lobby for change. I do think a well-prepared parent with research on the changes in admissions trends could make a good case to raise the number from 8-10 to say 12-14 but OP doesn't seem to want to do that she just wants to whine.
Anonymous
09/12/2023 13:06
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
It seems like you can’t simply answer the question.
Why should you get to decide or the school get to decide and not family or the student?
Also, how does limiting the number of apps help the whole student body? That makes absolutely no sense.
And how is a family supposed to know that this is even going to matter when they are choosing a high school?
NP here. DC is at an independent school that limits to 12. This is to allow students to choose colleges wisely and to spend time tailoring essays to each specific school. My educated guess is that students at independent schools tend to apply more frequently to SLACs than public school kids, which means that their applications will be reviewed more in depth, so the quality of essays matter much more than applying to a large state school. Limiting the number of apps helps the student body because colleges do limit the number of acceptances for each HS. Only the kids who really see themselves attending a particular college will apply there and will not be competing with stronger applicants who are applying just to see if they can get in, but will likely turn that college down. This doesn't seem, btw, to affect the stronger students, who get into great schools. Given that 100% of students at our HS attend college, this approach doesn't appear to hurt admissions.
Honestly, any student and/or parent looking at HSs should be asking questions about college admissions processes.
Still doesn't answer why it should not be up to the student and their family.
While I understand your point about colleges accepting only a certain number from each HS, and you admit it is a zero sum game, it seems this policy does not help "the student body as a whole" but rather helps some but hurts others somewhat randomly. Certainly no more fairly and probably less so since it is a limitation.
There is no justification for it. Let students apply where they want. Why is that so hard?
Anonymous
09/12/2023 12:05
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
It seems like you can’t simply answer the question.
Why should you get to decide or the school get to decide and not family or the student?
Also, how does limiting the number of apps help the whole student body? That makes absolutely no sense.
And how is a family supposed to know that this is even going to matter when they are choosing a high school?
NP here. DC is at an independent school that limits to 12. This is to allow students to choose colleges wisely and to spend time tailoring essays to each specific school. My educated guess is that students at independent schools tend to apply more frequently to SLACs than public school kids, which means that their applications will be reviewed more in depth, so the quality of essays matter much more than applying to a large state school. Limiting the number of apps helps the student body because colleges do limit the number of acceptances for each HS. Only the kids who really see themselves attending a particular college will apply there and will not be competing with stronger applicants who are applying just to see if they can get in, but will likely turn that college down. This doesn't seem, btw, to affect the stronger students, who get into great schools. Given that 100% of students at our HS attend college, this approach doesn't appear to hurt admissions.
Honestly, any student and/or parent looking at HSs should be asking questions about college admissions processes.
Anonymous
09/12/2023 06:59
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
It seems like you can’t simply answer the question.
Why should you get to decide or the school get to decide and not family or the student?
Also, how does limiting the number of apps help the whole student body? That makes absolutely no sense.
And how is a family supposed to know that this is even going to matter when they are choosing a high school?
Anonymous
09/12/2023 00:17
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
I'm not the PP you are replying to - but went through this recently at a school without a cap. I do not think limiting other students to 10 would have helped anyone else. When it came down to it, you either had a hook or you didn't. And the kids with the hooks are the ones that got into T20 schools. Limiting the people shooting the moon to too many schools was never going to change this outcome. I do not think the hooked kids applied to too many T20 schools so that it took spots from the unhooked ones. It's a nice idea to think that if you limit the number of applicants it'll open up spots for more of your students at these top schools, and maybe it used to work that way before COVID and before test optional and before application booms and before pushing back on the privileged but unhooked. But I don't think it works that way anymore. Just my 2 cents. For the GDS folks out there - I hope they see this and give you some more wiggle room to adapt to the new world.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 23:50
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
It seems like you can’t grasp that people have a different opinion. My kid’s school decides to do this to help kids focus on fit. And probably to limit the number of apps from the school to help the whole student body, not just the top students. And parents are generally fine with it. I’m okay with my schools making this decision for my kid - if I felt differently, I’d send my kid to another school. If you care so much about an individualist culture, you’re free to homeschool your kid.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 20:17
Subject: If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:this happens at the elite private high school level, and is important at the elite private high school level. (reminder once again that there are no true elite privates in the DC area)
the top 10 kids at Collegiate or Trinity or Exeter or Brearley can get into every ivy league school. This is a fact. Then add in another 10 kids at each of these schools who are on every top school's D list. They can also get into every ivy league school. The problem is if they were to apply to all these schools and get in, they can only enroll at one school each. 20 kids getting 200 acceptance letter btw them at the very best colleges .. but they turn down180 of them.
This leaves the rest of the class at Trinity and Collegiate etc in a tight spot. All those spots were taken -- and 90% discarded -- by their classmates.
In addition to limiting apps at our private hs, our college counselors will also have a discussion with a student if they get admitted to Princeton (etc) SCEA and decide to throw our a few more applications in RD round. They will say, listen, you're a double legacy at Princeton and your dad is talking about a new building. You've been wearing a Princeton sweatshirt since 4th grade. We had this discussion when you decided to make Princeton your early pick. And now you want to see about Harvard? Okay, but just know you might very well get into Harvard, and in doing so you might very well be taking that seat away from a classmate, and then you might very well decide to go to Princeton anyway. So this move could cause harm. What do you want to do?
And most will not move forward with Harvard. This is a scenario that is talked about during the very first college presentation that is given to parents by the school. It's presented positively, "The student is almost always shocked -- they wouldn't dream of hurting a peer's chances! - so they stick with their EA choice". It's made very clear there is no hoarding allowed.
And this is how 40% of Brearley (etc) end up at Ivies + Stanford + MIT
Wrong. That is not a fact--it is simply your belief.
not PP but I know for a fact that it's true for one of those schools, bcs my kids are there and they have a good idea of what kids are "top 10" - we don't rank - and def know where everyone goes to college. Brearley has like 40% at HYPSM
Between the wealthy, URM, sports recruits and legacy, it is not difficult for Brearley to place 40% in HYPSM. I have a friend's dd who went and she said just because Brearley places 40% in HYPSM it does not.mean the top 40% is going there. For instance the kids who went to Harvard from Spence were the daughter of Koch, Bikoff (owner of Energy drinks brand) and and the granddaughter of an ambassador etc.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 20:10
Subject: If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:OMG. How much do each of these applications cost?! Presumably $50-75 per application, right? I love how DCUM doesn't think anything about the application costs. I guess if you have money to burn, your kids don't have to think too hard.
This is a combination of families where they have enough to pay full tuition, so another few $100 in application fees is a drop in the bucket. To families who don't have money to pay for full tuition and it's worth the extra few $100 in application fees up front to increase chances of merit aid at a school their child likes. I'm sure families that are sticking to a plan that uses their affordable state school option are not worried about a limit of 10 applications.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 19:25
Subject: If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:this happens at the elite private high school level, and is important at the elite private high school level. (reminder once again that there are no true elite privates in the DC area)
the top 10 kids at Collegiate or Trinity or Exeter or Brearley can get into every ivy league school. This is a fact. Then add in another 10 kids at each of these schools who are on every top school's D list. They can also get into every ivy league school. The problem is if they were to apply to all these schools and get in, they can only enroll at one school each. 20 kids getting 200 acceptance letter btw them at the very best colleges .. but they turn down180 of them.
This leaves the rest of the class at Trinity and Collegiate etc in a tight spot. All those spots were taken -- and 90% discarded -- by their classmates.
In addition to limiting apps at our private hs, our college counselors will also have a discussion with a student if they get admitted to Princeton (etc) SCEA and decide to throw our a few more applications in RD round. They will say, listen, you're a double legacy at Princeton and your dad is talking about a new building. You've been wearing a Princeton sweatshirt since 4th grade. We had this discussion when you decided to make Princeton your early pick. And now you want to see about Harvard? Okay, but just know you might very well get into Harvard, and in doing so you might very well be taking that seat away from a classmate, and then you might very well decide to go to Princeton anyway. So this move could cause harm. What do you want to do?
And most will not move forward with Harvard. This is a scenario that is talked about during the very first college presentation that is given to parents by the school. It's presented positively, "The student is almost always shocked -- they wouldn't dream of hurting a peer's chances! - so they stick with their EA choice". It's made very clear there is no hoarding allowed.
And this is how 40% of Brearley (etc) end up at Ivies + Stanford + MIT
Wrong. That is not a fact--it is simply your belief.
not PP but I know for a fact that it's true for one of those schools, bcs my kids are there and they have a good idea of what kids are "top 10" - we don't rank - and def know where everyone goes to college. Brearley has like 40% at HYPSM
Anonymous
09/11/2023 18:10
Subject: If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:OMG. How much do each of these applications cost?! Presumably $50-75 per application, right? I love how DCUM mdoesn't think anything about the application costs. I guess if you have money to burn, your kids don't have to think too hard.
You can apply for a waiver. For those families that must chase merit because, like me, they are full pay but can’t afford 87k+ a year, tge cost of the application is a drop in the bucket compared to full freight costs
Anonymous
09/11/2023 18:08
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
I understand why some people might have this stance....but were you in the 2023 cycle? It was crazy unpredictable, with high stats Big 3 kids getting rejected from multiple schools that up through 2022 SCOIR/Naviance would have predicted them as very likely admits (95-100% chance based on RECENT graduates from their schools).
Having a 10 school limit in an environment where past data predicts so poorly is not prudent and induces extra unneeded stress.
You don't have to be gunning for a bunch of reach schools for this to happen. Point being, the list of "reach schools" is growing year after year since COVID (for many reasons) and schools are changing their admissions goals at the same time, so it's hard to know where to draw the "reach" line for top stats kids.
You can't magically know that 4 of the schools on your list that used to be great matches up through 2022 were going to be 2023 reaches.
Past data was very accurate for my kid. I’m glad he didn’t waste a lot of time and effort of fruitless fishing expeditions.
Happy to hear that.
FWIW mine didn't waste effort fishing - they put together a balanced list of reach, target, likely schools. Total of 12 applications, accepted to 6. The two they would have left off ended up being their best options. The kicker is, it wasn't the reaches failing - it was the targets that fell through and there was no reason for us or the counselor to have expected that based on the past. With all targets falling out - having those 2 extra applications meant the difference between a T25 and vs schools outside T50.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 18:03
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
People are free to not send their kids to GDS or any other private school that does this. Our school encourages finding the right fit and there’s no way all ivies are the right fit. They’re still able to fill the grade, so it’s clearly not a big enough problem for most families.
You completely avoid answering the question. To repeat:
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
Anonymous
09/11/2023 17:29
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
I understand why some people might have this stance....but were you in the 2023 cycle? It was crazy unpredictable, with high stats Big 3 kids getting rejected from multiple schools that up through 2022 SCOIR/Naviance would have predicted them as very likely admits (95-100% chance based on RECENT graduates from their schools).
Having a 10 school limit in an environment where past data predicts so poorly is not prudent and induces extra unneeded stress.
You don't have to be gunning for a bunch of reach schools for this to happen. Point being, the list of "reach schools" is growing year after year since COVID (for many reasons) and schools are changing their admissions goals at the same time, so it's hard to know where to draw the "reach" line for top stats kids.
You can't magically know that 4 of the schools on your list that used to be great matches up through 2022 were going to be 2023 reaches.
Past data was very accurate for my kid. I’m glad he didn’t waste a lot of time and effort of fruitless fishing expeditions.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 17:04
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
Whether or not that is true, why should you get to decide that, or any hs administration?
Shouldn't a student and their family be free to make that decision?
/FYI both my kids ED admits so this did not affect us, so no accusations please. But right it right and this is wrong.
A student and their family are free to enroll in another school that doesn’t have the same limits on college applications. Nobody is forcing them to go to those schools.
Our child chose a different school - but I can assure you that NEVER in the HS application process did any school talk about how many college applications a 12th grader could submit - nor was I thinking about it. I'm glad some parents will know now and I hope the GDS parents speak up. I am fully on board for asking students to be thoughtful about where they apply but a 10 school limit in the current landscape is too restrictive.
Anonymous
09/11/2023 17:01
Subject: Re:If your school limits students to 8-10 applications
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you are thoughtful about your list and not shotgunning a bunch of reach school there's really no need to apply to more than 8-10 schools.
^ This, in spades.
I understand why some people might have this stance....but were you in the 2023 cycle? It was crazy unpredictable, with high stats Big 3 kids getting rejected from multiple schools that up through 2022 SCOIR/Naviance would have predicted them as very likely admits (95-100% chance based on RECENT graduates from their schools).
Having a 10 school limit in an environment where past data predicts so poorly is not prudent and induces extra unneeded stress.
You don't have to be gunning for a bunch of reach schools for this to happen. Point being, the list of "reach schools" is growing year after year since COVID (for many reasons) and schools are changing their admissions goals at the same time, so it's hard to know where to draw the "reach" line for top stats kids.
You can't magically know that 4 of the schools on your list that used to be great matches up through 2022 were going to be 2023 reaches.