Anonymous wrote:Pedophile apologists are gross... just stop, please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people allow priests to get that close to their family? Maintain a healthy distance and teach kids that anyone can be a predator and this stuff would happen less.

Generally the family is troubled in some way and the priest provides support. Or one parent is very involved in the Church and ends up close to the priest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

No, you choose to deflect blame by claiming it’s anti-Catholic.

I did? Where? Please quote the post you are attributing to me.

per you, nobody is allowed to comment on a Catholic priest sexual abuse case unless they also comment on other cases. this is a false construct you use to escape blame by deflecting. infuriating, but transparently obvious to everyone except you and your fellow paleo Catholics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

LOVE it. Any criticism of the Church or a priest is “bigoted.”

No, and you know it. Your highly selective criticism is what's bigoted and hypocritical. Come back after you've started furious threads about abuse by teachers, coaches, doctors or family members.

this is a post *about recent news abour a priest.* you evidently believe that any comment on a priest committing sexual abuse is bigoted.

DP but none of this conversation has been about this priest. What was his name again? It's been all about the past abuses going back 60 years. Apparently people think the church should be dissolved because of its history in a way that we don't call for tearing down other institutions with a similar history.

This is a post about a priest and abuse in the Catholic Church, yes. Apparently you cannot tolerate any mention of it. But too bad for you that you can’t control what other people say they way you so dearly want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL @ people defending pedophile priests.

How terrible your life must be that you don't care about thousands of abused children at the hands of catholic priests. Disgusting.

This is such nonsense. I don’t know of a single Catholic that is or was not completely outraged by the abuse by clergy of (primarily) young boys. The cover up was even worse. The underlying enthusiasm by people posting about these issues seem to derive from the differences with the church teachings on social issues. You can see it in some of the posts above how they pivot from abuse to their differences with church doctrine. Fine. We get it. Doctrine is not going to change. Get rid of sexually deviant priests who seek shelter (and have been for generations now) in the Church and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

I dont GAF about doctrine, I care about an institution that has participated in sexual abuse of children. I care about an institution who gaslit and lied to victims. I care about an institution who knowingly transferred pedophiles from one area to another, further victimizing children. I care about an institution who actively hid, protected and cared more about pedophiles than children in their flock.

There is no defense here. This is an awful institution, and their history of raping children should not be forgotten or glossed over because it happens in other institutions as well. Feebly trying to defend these rapists is really just making the whole church and its followers look even worse.

God bless you. Will pray for you at Mass this Sunday. Seriously.

I'm an atheist so I'm not sure it will do much good, but go for it.

Pray for me, but please dont ever discount the thousands of children that were raped, molested and then silenced by these church leaders.

Of course it will. Some of my best friends are atheists. As I said, I never have nor ever will let evil human beings ruin my faith nor will I ever defend them and their enablers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

LOVE it. Any criticism of the Church or a priest is “bigoted.”

No, and you know it. Your highly selective criticism is what's bigoted and hypocritical. Come back after you've started furious threads about abuse by teachers, coaches, doctors or family members.

this is a post *about recent news abour a priest.* you evidently believe that any comment on a priest committing sexual abuse is bigoted.

DP but none of this conversation has been about this priest. What was his name again? It's been all about the past abuses going back 60 years. Apparently people think the church should be dissolved because of its history in a way that we don't call for tearing down other institutions with a similar history.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

LOVE it. Any criticism of the Church or a priest is “bigoted.”

No, and you know it. Your highly selective criticism is what's bigoted and hypocritical. Come back after you've started furious threads about abuse by teachers, coaches, doctors or family members.

this is a post *about recent news abour a priest.* you evidently believe that any comment on a priest committing sexual abuse is bigoted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

No, you choose to deflect blame by claiming it’s anti-Catholic.

I did? Where? Please quote the post you are attributing to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

LOVE it. Any criticism of the Church or a priest is “bigoted.”

No, and you know it. Your highly selective criticism is what's bigoted and hypocritical. Come back after you've started furious threads about abuse by teachers, coaches, doctors or family members.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

No, you choose to deflect blame by claiming it’s anti-Catholic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

LOVE it. Any criticism of the Church or a priest is “bigoted.”

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

DP. This. Abuse is horrible and I haven't seen a single post here defending it. But where are the posters foaming at the mouth about the larger numbers of victims who were molested by a teacher, coach, doctor, or family member? It seems both bigoted and hypocritical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not Catholic. I do think this is awful. But I also wonder if you’re equally as obsessive on the school and Family fora, or whether you bother to report on leaders from other faiths, every time there’s a news report about molestation.

This. The media and liberals seem to have an obsession with Catholics that do wrong. Protestants, Muslims, Jews - they all get a pass.

No, there’s plenty of coverage when an evangelical pastor is busted for gay s*x.

The media/popular attention is due to the fact that these guys are massive hypocrites. Trying to exert control over other people’s sexuality and reproduction, including through political influence, and meanwhile engaged in the most rank personal conduct. As for Catholics, there is plenty of evidence that the Catholic Church specifically has an abuse problem caused by the celibacy requirement and the type of people who are attracted to that, plus access to minors, and a culture of covering up abuse.

Kindly cite the “evidence” you claim allegedly linking celibacy to a propensity to commit sexual abuse.

As for “the type of people attracted to that,” people who engage in sexual activity with minors, or with anyone, by definition are not celibate.

The rate of sexual abuse by educators, police, foster parents, prison personnel, scouting and coaching personnel, and non-Catholic clergy vastly exceeds anything even alleged, let alone proven at any time against clergy in the Catholic Church. The rate in schools is estimated to be at least 100x that alleged against the Church. The vast majority of the persons committing such abuse are married/non-celibate.

Kindly cite the "evidence" for your assertion that non-catholic clergy abuse at a higher rate than catholic clergy

The assertion about non-Catholic educators is something that's kicking around hard-right, Christian nationalist circles. When they bother to cite any evidence, they all link back to a Pennsylvania state government cite that misquotes a Department of Education meta-analysis of studies of sexual abuse AND MISCONDUCT. Some important notes about this:

- The DOE analysis includes public and private schools, and several of the incidents of misconduct cited are specifically Catholic clergy abusing children.
- The meta-analysis includes "misconduct", including, e.g., adult school employees saying inappropriate things (e.g. a dirty joke) unknowingly within the hearing of a student. If that's reported, it's included as sexual misconduct.

Of course, all sexual abuse and misconduct by anyone should be investigated and reported, but trying to use an analysis that includes both rape by priests as well as one adult making an inappropriate comment to another adult to claim that other organizations are as bad as the Catholic church, which as a matter of policy approved at the highest levels actively covered up priests raping children in their care, is very disingenuous.

People on this board claim anti-Catholic bias whenever this topic comes up, but the facts are what they are -- the church actively covered up abuse for at least 60 years, and leadership actively participated. For people like me who had no particular opinion about the Catholic church before learning about this, I'm baffled at folks defending this atrocity.

Where is the defense? I missed it.

you missed the guy claiming that the Catholic Church has a sterling child protection record and anyone claiming otherwise is just a guilty sinner?

Yep missed that one and all the other "folks" defending it. Struggling to find a single defense here. It's outrageous when a clergy member does this. It's outrageous every time it happens whether it's a teacher, coach, doctor, neighbor, or any other person. It's extra outrageous when it's a father, grandfather, or other close relative. You choose to be extra outraged only when it's a Catholic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:LOL @ people defending pedophile priests.

How terrible your life must be that you don't care about thousands of abused children at the hands of catholic priests. Disgusting.

This is such nonsense. I don’t know of a single Catholic that is or was not completely outraged by the abuse by clergy of (primarily) young boys. The cover up was even worse. The underlying enthusiasm by people posting about these issues seem to derive from the differences with the church teachings on social issues. You can see it in some of the posts above how they pivot from abuse to their differences with church doctrine. Fine. We get it. Doctrine is not going to change. Get rid of sexually deviant priests who seek shelter (and have been for generations now) in the Church and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

I dont GAF about doctrine, I care about an institution that has participated in sexual abuse of children. I care about an institution who gaslit and lied to victims. I care about an institution who knowingly transferred pedophiles from one area to another, further victimizing children. I care about an institution who actively hid, protected and cared more about pedophiles than children in their flock.

There is no defense here. This is an awful institution, and their history of raping children should not be forgotten or glossed over because it happens in other institutions as well. Feebly trying to defend these rapists is really just making the whole church and its followers look even worse.

God bless you. Will pray for you at Mass this Sunday. Seriously.

I'm an atheist so I'm not sure it will do much good, but go for it.

Pray for me, but please dont ever discount the thousands of children that were raped, molested and then silenced by these church leaders.