Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 18:11     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Mental illness of XW occurred when she was 45. Not uncommon as a result of perimenopause.


This makes no sense at all. Menopause does not cause mental illness.


Perimenopause can absolutely trigger severe depression and other symptoms.


Ok, so then peri can cause depression -- not "severe mental illness." Severe mental illness is bipolar and schizophrenia. Quit it with the hyperbole.


Depression can be refractory, long-standing and severe - and far too often leads to suicide. How on earth can you assert that depression is not serious mental illness?

You are either ignorant or vile.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 17:50     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Yes correct.
They can only focus on themselves and their immediate needs.
Meanwhile their mother or nanny usually did everything for them and the household growing up. They just focused on getting good grades, a job and then society says get married.

But they cannot or will not see or fulfill the needs of other people or things.
They are not healthy or functional enough to do that, and the output of unmanaged symptoms plus normal adult expectations (from the wife now, for her, the kids as the houses sake) cause them to stim, stonewall, explode on an increasingly frequent basis. They need professional help or they need to exit and go back to their simple life alone.


This describes my DH to a T. What is the diagnosis here?
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 14:04     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH has something pretty severe going on. He snaps and blows up over very minor incidents. Today he stormed out of the car yelling as we were about to leave for my child’s birthday lunch. He always finds a way to blame me for his outbursts and takes no responsibility.

He has underlying anxiety and I think he is also depressed right now. But it could be something more severe, like borderline. When he is in a rage he is so nasty to me. His mood can turn on a dime. Five minutes after an outburst he is as if nothing happened. He has threatened me with calling police and accused me of illegal things. He is often paranoid and hears and sees things that haven’t happened.

We went to couples counseling and he ranted and raved about what a monster was. The therapist told him to just get a divorce. He agreed wholeheartedly in the session. Then on the way home started crying and said he doesn’t want divorce, he wants to go back to therapy.

OP I am at my wit’s end, it’s been more than a year of this. My kids are young. I just want my old husband back but it doesn’t seem it’s going to happen without treatment. I do not know if I can get divorced now with him in this state. I fear he would drag me through court because he is so hyped up and dysregulated, everything seems like a slight and he escalates to threats of lawyers whenever he is upset. It’s really a nightmare. After therapy last week though I am pretty sure he does not actually want to get divorced. I don’t know who he is anymore some days.

I think all you can do is accept that this is where he is now, and decide on your own boundaries. You for sure have more ability to push him to get help if you want. I would probably do that in your situation before it gets worst. Just be sure you ARE ready to get divorced if you threaten.


Has the therapist told him to get a full neuropsychol test done? Then seek out more appropriate, targeted therapy and medicine given the Dx.

Agree could be borderline, bipolar, schitzo, ASD, brain issues, etc.
Or good old fashion misogyny or narcissism. My spouse was called out at work for constantly treated women like children when HR overviewed his work with women groups, men groups, and coed groups. He cannot work well with women unless one comes in in a super senior position and instantly orders him around.


Not yet. We have only had two sessions with therapist. He seems to know what he’s doing. I’m going to see how it goes.


A good Phd therapist will absolutely want to loop you in to every third or fourth session, or more early on, in order to keep accountability for how he’s doing and what he’s working on.
A good Phd therapist will also have more experience or knowledge of diagnoses and send you guys to a neuropsychology test when and if needed. (Ie for accommodations or to verify things).

Good luck


Thank you. I think he needs it. Our couples counselor is a PsyD. But he’s very experienced and teaches in the psych dept of a university.


That’s good, glad he is talking with both of you.
At your spouses age as long as an experienced person knows the history and symptoms and patterns they can grant an informal diagnosis. No need for $5k neuropsycho, unlike a child who may benefit from therapies and accommodations.

We went neuropsych first and learned he has way more tough mental disorders than anticipated. It helped me understand, but I still don’t accept his verbal abuse and temper and constant setbacks. I wish he had gotten help with younger; his mom was busy with the disorders spouse and more severely dysfunctional younger child and chalked up the straight A son as “stubborn”, and “explosive,” and “another male who didn’t pick up after himself.”

Not that anyone told me this whilst dating. She did mention she was surprised he “had it in him to propose,”which I found to br a very odd comment.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 13:52     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:

I'm the mentally ill half of my marriage (bipolar disorder). Here's my take -- severe mental illness is horrible, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But -- it isn't an excuse to behave like a child or bail on responsibilities or treat loved ones poorly. You have to be an adult and manage your illness as best as possible in order to minimize the effects on others, which, if DBT is recommended and he doesn't do it, well -- then he doesn't appear to be doing his best to manage his illness. To me? That's unacceptable. So I do not recommend that you "just accept this." Maybe you need to insist on therapy with a real threat of losing his family on the line. But you need to be able to back that up. You need to not put up with the poor behavior.


+1 I also have severe anxiety and depression but I do everything recommended to keep it under control and live a normal life. Besides therapy and medication, I also do other things to help, like meditation, acupuncture, self-hypnosis, light therapy, etc. While I do occasionally spiral downward and get extremely sad with crying bouts, I would never treat my significant other the way you describe.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 13:46     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH has something pretty severe going on. He snaps and blows up over very minor incidents. Today he stormed out of the car yelling as we were about to leave for my child’s birthday lunch. He always finds a way to blame me for his outbursts and takes no responsibility.

He has underlying anxiety and I think he is also depressed right now. But it could be something more severe, like borderline. When he is in a rage he is so nasty to me. His mood can turn on a dime. Five minutes after an outburst he is as if nothing happened. He has threatened me with calling police and accused me of illegal things. He is often paranoid and hears and sees things that haven’t happened.

We went to couples counseling and he ranted and raved about what a monster was. The therapist told him to just get a divorce. He agreed wholeheartedly in the session. Then on the way home started crying and said he doesn’t want divorce, he wants to go back to therapy.

OP I am at my wit’s end, it’s been more than a year of this. My kids are young. I just want my old husband back but it doesn’t seem it’s going to happen without treatment. I do not know if I can get divorced now with him in this state. I fear he would drag me through court because he is so hyped up and dysregulated, everything seems like a slight and he escalates to threats of lawyers whenever he is upset. It’s really a nightmare. After therapy last week though I am pretty sure he does not actually want to get divorced. I don’t know who he is anymore some days.

I think all you can do is accept that this is where he is now, and decide on your own boundaries. You for sure have more ability to push him to get help if you want. I would probably do that in your situation before it gets worst. Just be sure you ARE ready to get divorced if you threaten.


Has the therapist told him to get a full neuropsychol test done? Then seek out more appropriate, targeted therapy and medicine given the Dx.

Agree could be borderline, bipolar, schitzo, ASD, brain issues, etc.
Or good old fashion misogyny or narcissism. My spouse was called out at work for constantly treated women like children when HR overviewed his work with women groups, men groups, and coed groups. He cannot work well with women unless one comes in in a super senior position and instantly orders him around.


Not yet. We have only had two sessions with therapist. He seems to know what he’s doing. I’m going to see how it goes.


A good Phd therapist will absolutely want to loop you in to every third or fourth session, or more early on, in order to keep accountability for how he’s doing and what he’s working on.
A good Phd therapist will also have more experience or knowledge of diagnoses and send you guys to a neuropsychology test when and if needed. (Ie for accommodations or to verify things).

Good luck


Thank you. I think he needs it. Our couples counselor is a PsyD. But he’s very experienced and teaches in the psych dept of a university.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 13:15     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH has something pretty severe going on. He snaps and blows up over very minor incidents. Today he stormed out of the car yelling as we were about to leave for my child’s birthday lunch. He always finds a way to blame me for his outbursts and takes no responsibility.

He has underlying anxiety and I think he is also depressed right now. But it could be something more severe, like borderline. When he is in a rage he is so nasty to me. His mood can turn on a dime. Five minutes after an outburst he is as if nothing happened. He has threatened me with calling police and accused me of illegal things. He is often paranoid and hears and sees things that haven’t happened.

We went to couples counseling and he ranted and raved about what a monster was. The therapist told him to just get a divorce. He agreed wholeheartedly in the session. Then on the way home started crying and said he doesn’t want divorce, he wants to go back to therapy.

OP I am at my wit’s end, it’s been more than a year of this. My kids are young. I just want my old husband back but it doesn’t seem it’s going to happen without treatment. I do not know if I can get divorced now with him in this state. I fear he would drag me through court because he is so hyped up and dysregulated, everything seems like a slight and he escalates to threats of lawyers whenever he is upset. It’s really a nightmare. After therapy last week though I am pretty sure he does not actually want to get divorced. I don’t know who he is anymore some days.

I think all you can do is accept that this is where he is now, and decide on your own boundaries. You for sure have more ability to push him to get help if you want. I would probably do that in your situation before it gets worst. Just be sure you ARE ready to get divorced if you threaten.


Has the therapist told him to get a full neuropsychol test done? Then seek out more appropriate, targeted therapy and medicine given the Dx.

Agree could be borderline, bipolar, schitzo, ASD, brain issues, etc.
Or good old fashion misogyny or narcissism. My spouse was called out at work for constantly treated women like children when HR overviewed his work with women groups, men groups, and coed groups. He cannot work well with women unless one comes in in a super senior position and instantly orders him around.


Not yet. We have only had two sessions with therapist. He seems to know what he’s doing. I’m going to see how it goes.


A good Phd therapist will absolutely want to loop you in to every third or fourth session, or more early on, in order to keep accountability for how he’s doing and what he’s working on.
A good Phd therapist will also have more experience or knowledge of diagnoses and send you guys to a neuropsychology test when and if needed. (Ie for accommodations or to verify things).

Good luck
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 13:07     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:XW refused therapy, and indeed refused believe she was mentally ill. She was not doing any housework or anything to help raise the kids before we divorced, so getting divorced did not change my workload at all.


Sorry what kind of mental illness and depression/severe anxiety episodes did she present to the family? What therapies were recommended by the psychologists that she refused to do or put effort into?


Great questions. Hope he answers them with some real facts.
“Midlife crisis” or “periopause” or “didn’t do enough housework” is not on the DSM.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 13:04     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Their condition gets worse. My mother had severe anxiety when I was small, which progressed to paranoia, which progressed to delusions. It was rough. I don’t know how the non-mentally ill parent is supposed to deal. On her own my mother had atrocious judgment and couldn’t take care of another person.


+ same with my father and my uncles, all divorced. Their wives were saints until they too were almost driven insane by the insanity of living with someone like that.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 12:54     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Mental illness of XW occurred when she was 45. Not uncommon as a result of perimenopause.


Severe mental illness is not a common symptom of menopause.


Depression is very common in perimenopause, poster, and severe depression leading to other mental illness is not uncommon. Why? Not because women are weak, just because we are human.

One of the primary symptoms of perimenopause/post menopause is chronic insomnia, and a brain that does not sleep is a brain as high risk for mental health disorder, period. Elevated levels of stress hormones let loose by stress and chronic insomnia drive erratic emotions. Same thing happens to men under the same conditions, nothing for women to be ashamed about.

The truth is peri/postmenopause is not talked about much except among women and usually then in support groups and over kitchen table coffee dates and not in the freaking medical profession where menopause doctors are very rare and the vast majority of women never get to see one and are urged by clueless primary care doctors and standard gyns to ‘tough it out’ nevermind the devastating effects on family, career, self, long term health.

We need to demand better care for women through the change of life, and responsible conversation that acknowledges the serious health issues faced by many women in the transition - minus all the misogyny. It is long past time!
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 12:43     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH has something pretty severe going on. He snaps and blows up over very minor incidents. Today he stormed out of the car yelling as we were about to leave for my child’s birthday lunch. He always finds a way to blame me for his outbursts and takes no responsibility.

He has underlying anxiety and I think he is also depressed right now. But it could be something more severe, like borderline. When he is in a rage he is so nasty to me. His mood can turn on a dime. Five minutes after an outburst he is as if nothing happened. He has threatened me with calling police and accused me of illegal things. He is often paranoid and hears and sees things that haven’t happened.

We went to couples counseling and he ranted and raved about what a monster was. The therapist told him to just get a divorce. He agreed wholeheartedly in the session. Then on the way home started crying and said he doesn’t want divorce, he wants to go back to therapy.

OP I am at my wit’s end, it’s been more than a year of this. My kids are young. I just want my old husband back but it doesn’t seem it’s going to happen without treatment. I do not know if I can get divorced now with him in this state. I fear he would drag me through court because he is so hyped up and dysregulated, everything seems like a slight and he escalates to threats of lawyers whenever he is upset. It’s really a nightmare. After therapy last week though I am pretty sure he does not actually want to get divorced. I don’t know who he is anymore some days.

I think all you can do is accept that this is where he is now, and decide on your own boundaries. You for sure have more ability to push him to get help if you want. I would probably do that in your situation before it gets worst. Just be sure you ARE ready to get divorced if you threaten.


Has the therapist told him to get a full neuropsychol test done? Then seek out more appropriate, targeted therapy and medicine given the Dx.

Agree could be borderline, bipolar, schitzo, ASD, brain issues, etc.
Or good old fashion misogyny or narcissism. My spouse was called out at work for constantly treated women like children when HR overviewed his work with women groups, men groups, and coed groups. He cannot work well with women unless one comes in in a super senior position and instantly orders him around.


Not yet. We have only had two sessions with therapist. He seems to know what he’s doing. I’m going to see how it goes.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 12:32     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Mental illness of XW occurred when she was 45. Not uncommon as a result of perimenopause.


This makes no sense at all. Menopause does not cause mental illness.


Perimenopause can absolutely trigger severe depression and other symptoms.


Ok, so then peri can cause depression -- not "severe mental illness." Severe mental illness is bipolar and schizophrenia. Quit it with the hyperbole.


It's not hyperbole. Perimenopause / menopause can absolutely trigger schizophrenia.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/12/is-estrogen-the-key-to-understanding-womens-mental-health.html#_ga=2.262432332.1148033627.1693153721-288864771.1693153721

This story could have been written about my XW. What happened to "Janet" was exactly what happened to her - but unlike Janet, XW did not (and still does not) believe she has a serious mental illness.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 12:14     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:My spouse has major depressive disorder and anxiety. She also has outearns me x3 (she private, me public sector). I'm DH. I do about 98% of the household management, all the child logistics (get up early, pack lunches, drop off and pick up, manage schedules,etc.) and all the cooking, cleaning, maintenance, straightening up, etc. (while also managing a full-time not-so-unstressful executive role in my own right). Spouse gets regularly rattled by work stuff and then is in siege mentality (everyone is against me!) and while she mostly exempts our kids from the wrath, I get it all. It's like I'm the punching bag that is safe. Tiny things become major crises (e.g. she starts talking and then lowers her voice as she walks down the hall and I say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear that last part" and this, in her view, is due to me (no one!) listening to her, not the physical fact of walking away and lower volume while saying something). We have very little intimacy or companionship left, as she bottles it all up. Try to make friends and there is always something wrong with them. I won't/can't leave it because of our kids, but it's devastatingly depressing to think this is my life for the next 20 years. I saw all the signs but chose against them because they started to improve a decade ago, but then childbirth brought them all back and worse, Wouldn't trade it due to the amazing kids, but it's not fun on the whole (we do have lovely times and some fun mixed in, but it always feels like it's going to fall apart, because it does). And, jobwise, she's been in a mix of higher and lower stress environments and it's all the same--she's been an emotional and depressive mess in all of the environments. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. There's so much pain in some people's lives and most people don't have a clue.


Also, yes, in treatment, and has been, and with multiple providers. That's no magic elixir that fixes everything.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 12:14     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
My spouse has major depressive disorder and anxiety. She also has outearns me x3 (she private, me public sector). I'm DH. I do about 98% of the household management, all the child logistics (get up early, pack lunches, drop off and pick up, manage schedules,etc.) and all the cooking, cleaning, maintenance, straightening up, etc. (while also managing a full-time not-so-unstressful executive role in my own right). Spouse gets regularly rattled by work stuff and then is in siege mentality (everyone is against me!) and while she mostly exempts our kids from the wrath, I get it all. It's like I'm the punching bag that is safe. Tiny things become major crises (e.g. she starts talking and then lowers her voice as she walks down the hall and I say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear that last part" and this, in her view, is due to me (no one!) listening to her, not the physical fact of walking away and lower volume while saying something). We have very little intimacy or companionship left, as she bottles it all up. Try to make friends and there is always something wrong with them. I won't/can't leave it because of our kids, but it's devastatingly depressing to think this is my life for the next 20 years. I saw all the signs but chose against them because they started to improve a decade ago, but then childbirth brought them all back and worse, Wouldn't trade it due to the amazing kids, but it's not fun on the whole (we do have lovely times and some fun mixed in, but it always feels like it's going to fall apart, because it does). And, jobwise, she's been in a mix of higher and lower stress environments and it's all the same--she's been an emotional and depressive mess in all of the environments. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. There's so much pain in some people's lives and most people don't have a clue.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 11:45     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Op here - some therapist have thought it was bipolar others have not. I think it is but my opinion doesn’t really matter and his therapist said wouldn’t necessarily change treatment. To me clearly his meds aren’t working well so his meds treatment should change but I obviously have no say in meds

I hate living with the constant fear that one of this times he will kill himself. I don’t think he will but don’t know for sure and he makes passive suicide comments like “I wish I was dead”. I hate wondering if he’s up late because he’s working or because he’s spiraling and taken a bunch of Xanax and may decide to order alcohol (we don’t keep it in the house). I hate that if we separate either the kids would have basically no relationship with him or they’d be stuck dealing with him on their own - at least now they have a relationship that is generally positive if confusing and unpredictable (they are used to him disappearing for days and say nothing about it, it’s just the norm for them). I hate feeling like I’m enabling him to avoid treatment and also that trying to force treatment could end in so many bad outcomes (divorce with one of the bad outcomes for kid, suicide). And my heart breaks for him to have to live this way
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 11:41     Subject: If you have a mentally ill spouse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it that these people are able with severe mental ill Ed’s are able to hold it together until well after launching a career, marriage, kids, etc. Isn’t the onset of most mental illness in young adulthood? Or perhaps after so many years masked and untreated, it explodes in the 30s-40s?


Mental illness of XW occurred when she was 45. Not uncommon as a result of perimenopause.


This makes no sense at all. Menopause does not cause mental illness.


Perimenopause can absolutely trigger severe depression and other symptoms.


Ok, so then peri can cause depression -- not "severe mental illness." Severe mental illness is bipolar and schizophrenia. Quit it with the hyperbole.