Anonymous
Post 09/05/2023 13:22     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
The nasty tone of the anti-BSA comments from established partisan voices on this thread is an accurate reflection of the behavior and language your family will experience if your girl joins a Girl Scout troop. If you are uber-left, you will appreciate the toxic anti-male attitudes your daughter will absorb and begin exhibiting to her father, brother and male teachers. If you are with the 90% of us who are open-minded, you should think carefully before going that way.
Anonymous
Post 09/01/2023 16:27     Subject: Re:cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
It is easier to do different activities in a Pack or Troop. You have a larger group of parents to pull volunteers from and you are more likely to have a series of parents who are willing to attend the trainings needed to do things like camp or backpack or canoe. It is harder in a much smaller Girl Scout Troop. A Pack is pulling from 20-50 families, at least most of the Packs that I know of in my area, a Troop is pulling from 25-100 families. Spreading out volunteer needs is easier and the Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmaster, and Committee Members can identify people to transition a role to when their kid is aging out. The Pack/Troop continue on and volunteers are replaced by new families that are enthusiastic. Spreading out those trainings and responsibilities makes it easier to hold different events. And the Pack/Troop can continue when people leave.

Girl Scout Troops are pulling from a smaller number of adults to chaperone and who have to take on the burden of the training to do things like camp and water activities and the like. If the leader decides that they are done, the Troop needs to have one of a smaller number of adults to step up or the Troop folds.



Anonymous
Post 09/01/2023 13:27     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Boy Scouts (or now Scouts BSA) is hands down waaay better than GSA. Most moms who head up GSA are interested in the crafts but not adventures. Plus, the model of BSA/Scouts includes a lot of mentorship. You have your den meetings weekly and then pack meetings monthly - pack includes all ES grade dens. GS does nothing like that - I tried to get our ES GS troop to do this to no avail.

Anonymous
Post 09/01/2023 13:17     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?

Quoting PP: Girl Scouts is $25 the first year and then it's the absolute cheapest activity you can find. Yes, there is a lot of time spent on cookie sales, but the money goes back to the troop and my daughter has gone skiing, camping, crafting, hiking, etc. for no cost to me except my time.

This is actually one of the things I did not like about Girl Scouts... I'm the PP with 3 kids--a girl who did Girl Scouts and a girl and a boy currently in BSA. I think the cookie sales involve a ton of invisible/unpaid labor, almost always by women. I don't want my kids to learn to overlook those costs.
Anonymous
Post 08/30/2023 11:55     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:“Our existing troops don’t want your girl, but we have such a great program that you should gladly agree to form your own troop and run the entire thing just to create a slot for your daughter. You are plain lazy not to do so. By the way, when you form your own troop you will gladly spend months complying with our procedures and engaging in retail product sales to pay the salaries of our professionals.”

There is a big difference between this program
and business approach and that of other opportunities. Think carefully before you agree to do this. Narrow your focus to only that which is best for your daughter. Select an organization that will serve your family and not the other way around.



I see parents dishing out $500 bucks in fees for soccer, arts programs, and other after-school activities. Including BSA.

Girl Scouts is $25 the first year and then it's the absolute cheapest activity you can find. Yes, there is a lot of time spent on cookie sales, but the money goes back to the troop and my daughter has gone skiing, camping, crafting, hiking, etc. for no cost to me except my time.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2023 08:43     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
“Our existing troops don’t want your girl, but we have such a great program that you should gladly agree to form your own troop and run the entire thing just to create a slot for your daughter. You are plain lazy not to do so. By the way, when you form your own troop you will gladly spend months complying with our procedures and engaging in retail product sales to pay the salaries of our professionals.”

There is a big difference between this program
and business approach and that of other opportunities. Think carefully before you agree to do this. Narrow your focus to only that which is best for your daughter. Select an organization that will serve your family and not the other way around.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 17:17     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Please start your own GS tropp, rather than join BSA. Let's take a look, shall we: they abuse boys and move molesters around the country, cover-up the assaults, and when about to go bankrupt, come up with an idea to allow girls (the 50% they've excluded for decades, and fortunately, spared from the abuse).

The GS troop is 100% leader dependant. Get a good one and you are golden - my daughter started as a daisy and ended as a caddette, earning her gold award. Why not be a part of the solution?


Totally agree. Plus all of the girl Boy Scouts I know say they’re sort of a second thought. I’m sure that’s not universal, but it’s the total opposite of what scouting should be.


It's tough if there's already a GS troop available but it's toxic. They won't let you start a new troop if there's space available in a local one. So you are stuck with traveling to find a new troop (so all the friends your kid makes aren't local, not to mention the added time involved), or you go to a local Boy Scout troop that welcomes girls.

Ask me how I know!



Absolutely not true. If you have two leaders, a money manager and at least 6 girls you can start a new troop. You're just lazy.


I hate it when troop leaders call parents who aren't able to lead a troop lazy. Some people are good at this stuff, some aren't.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 14:46     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Please start your own GS tropp, rather than join BSA. Let's take a look, shall we: they abuse boys and move molesters around the country, cover-up the assaults, and when about to go bankrupt, come up with an idea to allow girls (the 50% they've excluded for decades, and fortunately, spared from the abuse).

The GS troop is 100% leader dependant. Get a good one and you are golden - my daughter started as a daisy and ended as a caddette, earning her gold award. Why not be a part of the solution?


Totally agree. Plus all of the girl Boy Scouts I know say they’re sort of a second thought. I’m sure that’s not universal, but it’s the total opposite of what scouting should be.


It's tough if there's already a GS troop available but it's toxic. They won't let you start a new troop if there's space available in a local one. So you are stuck with traveling to find a new troop (so all the friends your kid makes aren't local, not to mention the added time involved), or you go to a local Boy Scout troop that welcomes girls.

Ask me how I know!



Absolutely not true. If you have two leaders, a money manager and at least 6 girls you can start a new troop. You're just lazy.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 14:12     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:Long time Scoutmaster of a Scouts BSA all-girl Troop in the District here. Beginning our fifth year of program, we have had bunches of young women experience very positive outdoor adventures and program with us and with the local Cub Scouts organizations in the District that feed their members to us. I don't know much about GSUSA, but what I do know from years of experience is that the existing Scouts BSA program works splendidly for girls. The BSA program is standardized, meaning that anyone who joins one of our groups will indeed experience a set number of experiences -- rather than whatever is decided by troop leadership. This means that everyone goes outside, camps, and engages in rigorous forward-looking activities. You will know what you are getting when you associate with a BSA group. I think it is great to have many youth service organizations to choose from, but Scouts BSA, Cub Scouts, Venturers and Sea Scouts (all BSA programs available in the DMV) work very well for females. No organization has a perfect history, and BSA has had major warts. However, the going-forward vision of BSA and the opportunity it offers girls and boys is indeed brilliant. I invite your family to consider BSA programming and compare what is available to other fine offerings and choose what is best for you.


lolyikes
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 14:09     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Long time Scoutmaster of a Scouts BSA all-girl Troop in the District here. Beginning our fifth year of program, we have had bunches of young women experience very positive outdoor adventures and program with us and with the local Cub Scouts organizations in the District that feed their members to us. I don't know much about GSUSA, but what I do know from years of experience is that the existing Scouts BSA program works splendidly for girls. The BSA program is standardized, meaning that anyone who joins one of our groups will indeed experience a set number of experiences -- rather than whatever is decided by troop leadership. This means that everyone goes outside, camps, and engages in rigorous forward-looking activities. You will know what you are getting when you associate with a BSA group. I think it is great to have many youth service organizations to choose from, but Scouts BSA, Cub Scouts, Venturers and Sea Scouts (all BSA programs available in the DMV) work very well for females. No organization has a perfect history, and BSA has had major warts. However, the going-forward vision of BSA and the opportunity it offers girls and boys is indeed brilliant. I invite your family to consider BSA programming and compare what is available to other fine offerings and choose what is best for you.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 12:51     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The US was, until recently, one of only 13 nations that had single-gender scouting out of 216 nations with scouting programs. Just an interesting fact, but one that suggests the BSA change was a good one.


You know why that is, right? BSA did not want to band with the Girl Scouts (as had been done in the UK), because James West thought Scouting activities weren't appropriate for girls, forcing the creation of Girl Scouts as a separate organization. We should remember that many organizations like the Girl Scouts exist due to long-standing discrimination. When the larger, generally more powerful organizations (like PWIs) finally see the light and make steps to eliminate their discrimination, that does not mean we ignore their discrimination or immediately embrace them now that we're finally good enough for them.

While Boy Scouts finally broadening their views is a long time coming, it is ... interesting, shall we say? that Boy Scouts saw the light when they lost the influx of money from the Mormon church and needed to start looking elsewhere in order to keep their coffers full.


Bot just this, but the bone-deep, take-it-to-the-Supreme- Court commitment to LGBT discrimination while Girl Scouts was admitting trans kids is just conveniently handwaved away by parents who don't want to go to the trouble of actually volunteering in their kid's GSA troop. "They need money now, of course they'll stop discriminating it makes sense" isn't a reason to look the other way, but I guess any cover works if you never really cared.


I do think this is somewhat troubling, and also I am a little bothered by the fact that BSA has not changed anything with the admission of girls -- it's still exactly the same program, which I guess is fine if that's what you want, but also strikes me as a little bit like telling girls they are welcome so long as they conform exactly to what was set up by a bunch of men over the past 100 years. Girl Scouts, on the other hand, is very much girl driven (and women-led), and comes from that perspective. So the BSA inclusion seems to be more the old school vision of inclusion (you can join but don't expect us to change) rather than the newer model of inclusion (bring your true full self and we will change/develop based on what you bring to the table).

But I don't think those philosophical disputes should stop a girl from joining cub scouts or boy scouts if that is what works best for her. But I think parents should be aware that is still primarily a male-led program defined by males. Like all predominantly male organizations/institutions, I think it can be really rough for girls if they are a minority -- some girls are able to weather that well, but for many girls, it's stressful once they hit a certain age, especially if there are only 1-2 girls in the den/troop.

Also, I'll note that for girls that want to do some of the high adventure stuff, they should look at GIrl Scout destinations, or there are also a couple different "troops" in the DC area for teen girls that focus on high adventure activities. (I have "troop" in quotes because they aren't really troops -- they are groups that cross troop lines and bring together different girls.)


Tell me you know nothing about BSA while trying to sound knowledgeable.

Cub Scout Adventures cover a ton of topics. Genealogy, world cultures, camping, cooking, leave no trace, maps, safety, music, art and a whole host more. The kids are exposed to a lot of different activities.

Troops that are well run are led by the Scouts. The Scouts pick the activities and plan them. Different Troops develop reputations for certain types if programs because that is what the kids have planned and new Scouts looking to join are interested in that type of program. We visited 7 Troops last year before bridging and each one was different.

Merit badges are updated regularly, some are dropped and some are added. There are a ton of choices.

The ranks and rank requirements are the same across the organization. You can look them up right now and decide if that is what you want to do. BSA has long been about learning to lead and be a good person through outdoor activities, that is not going to change. But the way the program is run at the Troop level 100% reflects the Scouts interests and values. That might be different in various parts of the country but there is no prescribed program for Troops.

I would guess that there are specific requirements for badges and rank in Girl Scouts the same as in BSA. The girls might have more say in activities at a younger age but I suspect that a good amount of a Daisies activities are parent suggestions.
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 12:29     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The US was, until recently, one of only 13 nations that had single-gender scouting out of 216 nations with scouting programs. Just an interesting fact, but one that suggests the BSA change was a good one.


You know why that is, right? BSA did not want to band with the Girl Scouts (as had been done in the UK), because James West thought Scouting activities weren't appropriate for girls, forcing the creation of Girl Scouts as a separate organization. We should remember that many organizations like the Girl Scouts exist due to long-standing discrimination. When the larger, generally more powerful organizations (like PWIs) finally see the light and make steps to eliminate their discrimination, that does not mean we ignore their discrimination or immediately embrace them now that we're finally good enough for them.

While Boy Scouts finally broadening their views is a long time coming, it is ... interesting, shall we say? that Boy Scouts saw the light when they lost the influx of money from the Mormon church and needed to start looking elsewhere in order to keep their coffers full.


Bot just this, but the bone-deep, take-it-to-the-Supreme- Court commitment to LGBT discrimination while Girl Scouts was admitting trans kids is just conveniently handwaved away by parents who don't want to go to the trouble of actually volunteering in their kid's GSA troop. "They need money now, of course they'll stop discriminating it makes sense" isn't a reason to look the other way, but I guess any cover works if you never really cared.


I do think this is somewhat troubling, and also I am a little bothered by the fact that BSA has not changed anything with the admission of girls -- it's still exactly the same program, which I guess is fine if that's what you want, but also strikes me as a little bit like telling girls they are welcome so long as they conform exactly to what was set up by a bunch of men over the past 100 years. Girl Scouts, on the other hand, is very much girl driven (and women-led), and comes from that perspective. So the BSA inclusion seems to be more the old school vision of inclusion (you can join but don't expect us to change) rather than the newer model of inclusion (bring your true full self and we will change/develop based on what you bring to the table).

But I don't think those philosophical disputes should stop a girl from joining cub scouts or boy scouts if that is what works best for her. But I think parents should be aware that is still primarily a male-led program defined by males. Like all predominantly male organizations/institutions, I think it can be really rough for girls if they are a minority -- some girls are able to weather that well, but for many girls, it's stressful once they hit a certain age, especially if there are only 1-2 girls in the den/troop.

Also, I'll note that for girls that want to do some of the high adventure stuff, they should look at GIrl Scout destinations, or there are also a couple different "troops" in the DC area for teen girls that focus on high adventure activities. (I have "troop" in quotes because they aren't really troops -- they are groups that cross troop lines and bring together different girls.)
Anonymous
Post 08/28/2023 10:44     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
My girls have been in Cub Scouts since they were in kinder, so 5+ years at this point. It has been a very positive experience for them. Girls make up only about 20% of the Cub Scouts, but it's not a problem. They enjoy the activities and are buddies with the boys (who seem to have no trouble at all "being boys" despite a few girls being in the room, wow).

I highly, highly recommend at least trying it - if you have a positive experience, great! If not, oh well, just stop doing it. If paying dues when you're not sure how it's going to go is an issue, I'm sure almost any pack would either let you try a few meetings without paying, or even give you financial aid if needed.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 23:59     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Please start your own GS tropp, rather than join BSA. Let's take a look, shall we: they abuse boys and move molesters around the country, cover-up the assaults, and when about to go bankrupt, come up with an idea to allow girls (the 50% they've excluded for decades, and fortunately, spared from the abuse).

The GS troop is 100% leader dependant. Get a good one and you are golden - my daughter started as a daisy and ended as a caddette, earning her gold award. Why not be a part of the solution?


Totally agree. Plus all of the girl Boy Scouts I know say they’re sort of a second thought. I’m sure that’s not universal, but it’s the total opposite of what scouting should be.


It's tough if there's already a GS troop available but it's toxic. They won't let you start a new troop if there's space available in a local one.[i][u] So you are stuck with traveling to find a new troop (so all the friends your kid makes aren't local, not to mention the added time involved), or you go to a local Boy Scout troop that welcomes girls.

Ask me how I know!


What? That is definitely not true. There is nothing to prevent you from starting a second troop in the same area. If anything, they are usually begging for more leaders and more troops.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2023 23:30     Subject: cub scouts for girls/mixed gender Cub Scout troops - what are your experiences?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The US was, until recently, one of only 13 nations that had single-gender scouting out of 216 nations with scouting programs. Just an interesting fact, but one that suggests the BSA change was a good one.


You know why that is, right? BSA did not want to band with the Girl Scouts (as had been done in the UK), because James West thought Scouting activities weren't appropriate for girls, forcing the creation of Girl Scouts as a separate organization. We should remember that many organizations like the Girl Scouts exist due to long-standing discrimination. When the larger, generally more powerful organizations (like PWIs) finally see the light and make steps to eliminate their discrimination, that does not mean we ignore their discrimination or immediately embrace them now that we're finally good enough for them.

While Boy Scouts finally broadening their views is a long time coming, it is ... interesting, shall we say? that Boy Scouts saw the light when they lost the influx of money from the Mormon church and needed to start looking elsewhere in order to keep their coffers full.


Bot just this, but the bone-deep, take-it-to-the-Supreme- Court commitment to LGBT discrimination while Girl Scouts was admitting trans kids is just conveniently handwaved away by parents who don't want to go to the trouble of actually volunteering in their kid's GSA troop. "They need money now, of course they'll stop discriminating it makes sense" isn't a reason to look the other way, but I guess any cover works if you never really cared.