Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 14:31     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.


I mean, if you had a good pool of applicants and 3 of them came from universities where the students could study a foreign language in depth and 1 came from WVU where they could not study any foreign languages and so was monolingual, which candidates do you think the foreign service or military intelligence -- or some other organization where being bilingual was useful-- would consider more seriously?

I'm in a field where being able to read in multiple languages can be very useful. And no, you can't just use google translate when you are reading published books or documents that are not online. I don't even look twice at applicants who have no foreign language experience.

I would guess this means that a lot of WVU's study abroad programs are going to stop. What's the point of going to study in France or Spain if you can't speak any of the language? And that also will mean you don't have something interesting to put on your resume.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 14:26     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.


Anyone who learns foreign languages in depth knows that the earlier in life you learn them, the better able you are at becoming fluent, and quicker. Going 4 years of undergraduate without studying a language that you then need to acquire in your mid-twenties or later is not really great planning.

There's a reason small children pick up new languages so quickly and old people do not. You need to take advantage of the plasticity of the brain when it is young. Even if you choose the "wrong" language, having studied it at a younger age, that will help with learning a different one, especially if it's related.

And if WVU is getting rid of foreign language majors, that is a death knell for foreign languages in high schools and earlier in WVA. When there is no one to teach a language it gets cut from the curriculum. That's what happened at my child's high school when the person teaching the language they had been studying decided to leave and the school couldn't find someone to replace him.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 13:04     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.


The school HAS qualified professors, and the department brings in a lot more money than it costs, but they are firing them and shutting down the dept.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 13:04     Subject: Re:WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Many majors are merging not being cut.

For example there was a college of media and a college for communications. Under the review, the 2 colleges were merged into one as a college of media and communications.

There’s a lot of overlap in the types of classes and having different teachers for similar classes didn’t make sense. If you look at the list of majors available, there were a ton. Some of the overlaps needed to be merged and some majors that are not popular enough to continue funding.

Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 13:01     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.


Decent schools expect high school students to take a language. WVU is just reminding people that they don’t belong in that category
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:59     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:They don’t need $90k/yr PhDs teaching language courses. They could get the job done with adjuncts with master’s degrees.

Agree that they could have trimmed waste by canning lots of the associate deans of student engagement and such. Also cut a few dozen surly middle-aged receptionists with pictures of their grandchildren on their desks.


Who is going to move to WV to be an adjunct making no money?
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:58     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is completely nuts to think that a flagship land grant university should replace its entire foreign language department with duolingo. They also are decimating the English department.

These are the bread and butter courses of an undergraduate education.

Gordon Gee is a disgrace who keeps failing into more jobs. The WVU he leaves behind will be slowly collapsing shell rather than an important pillar of the economy.


I never see anyone think anything negatively of him. He's really not been great for the university, tbh. I'm a '07 graduate of WVU and loved my time there. I received an excellent education and was able to go on to a top graduate program and then top med school to become a Psychiatrist.

I have not kept up with the WV state policies, but when I was a student there, WV residents who passed certain exams (like the VA SOLs) with a particular score received a Promise Scholarship to attend WVU for pretty much nothing. I know when I attended, my roommates were both WV residents and paid less than $1000 each per semester to attend. I think I paid $14k-ish. The problem with the policy is that the resident graduates didn't stay in the state of WV and help the state economy. They received a great education for next to nothing and then moved to better states to secure jobs. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/education/majority-of-wv-public-college-grads-leave-state-for-work/article_a9f5cfa3-69b6-5276-8302-e1943406cf16.html.

Enrollment across all colleges is down. It's not special to WVU. Most universities are seeing the decline because Gen-Z has mostly realized that going into debt for an education is not worth it.



Plenty of people think very negatively about Gee. He used to regularly insult Catholics and schools he thought were lesser. Personally, I love the irony of him presiding over a terrible school becoming a joke after complaining that SEC students need to learn how to read and write.


Yeah he spent like $8 million of Ohio state’s money on redoing his mansion and buying bow ties
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:55     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:45     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look at the states that WV borders, UVA, UMD, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, even Kentucky are all growing and healthy. Meanwhile WVU is shrinking


Population, in millions;

WV: 1.8
VA: 8.6
MD: 6
PA: 13
OH: 12
KY: 4.5

Ignoring the broken US system for Senate and Electoral College, WV should probably merge with MD.


Vermont has 650k and UVM is healthy. Same with Rhode Island and Delaware and 1M.


New England has had 400 years of commitment to education

WV literally are the dregs of the British isles - centuries of commitment against intellectual pursuits


Same people who inhabited Virginia.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:44     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look at the states that WV borders, UVA, UMD, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, even Kentucky are all growing and healthy. Meanwhile WVU is shrinking


Population, in millions;

WV: 1.8
VA: 8.6
MD: 6
PA: 13
OH: 12
KY: 4.5

Ignoring the broken US system for Senate and Electoral College, WV should probably merge with MD.


Vermont has 650k and UVM is healthy. Same with Rhode Island and Delaware and 1M.


blue areas tend to value education and invest accordingly for their people.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:44     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look at the states that WV borders, UVA, UMD, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, even Kentucky are all growing and healthy. Meanwhile WVU is shrinking


Population, in millions;

WV: 1.8
VA: 8.6
MD: 6
PA: 13
OH: 12
KY: 4.5

Ignoring the broken US system for Senate and Electoral College, WV should probably merge with MD.


or maybe take its electoral votes and reconnect with Virginia. The only reason places like WVA and the Dakotas exist was to give more power to rural voters.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:36     Subject: Re:WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.



Even if that language is English ?


Especially English.
ROI is shit

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

For a foreign language, at least you acquire certain level of another language.



Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:35     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you look at the states that WV borders, UVA, UMD, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, even Kentucky are all growing and healthy. Meanwhile WVU is shrinking


Population, in millions;

WV: 1.8
VA: 8.6
MD: 6
PA: 13
OH: 12
KY: 4.5

Ignoring the broken US system for Senate and Electoral College, WV should probably merge with MD.


Vermont has 650k and UVM is healthy. Same with Rhode Island and Delaware and 1M.


New England has had 400 years of commitment to education

WV literally are the dregs of the British isles - centuries of commitment against intellectual pursuits
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:31     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is completely nuts to think that a flagship land grant university should replace its entire foreign language department with duolingo. They also are decimating the English department.

These are the bread and butter courses of an undergraduate education.

Gordon Gee is a disgrace who keeps failing into more jobs. The WVU he leaves behind will be slowly collapsing shell rather than an important pillar of the economy.


I never see anyone think anything negatively of him. He's really not been great for the university, tbh. I'm a '07 graduate of WVU and loved my time there. I received an excellent education and was able to go on to a top graduate program and then top med school to become a Psychiatrist.

I have not kept up with the WV state policies, but when I was a student there, WV residents who passed certain exams (like the VA SOLs) with a particular score received a Promise Scholarship to attend WVU for pretty much nothing. I know when I attended, my roommates were both WV residents and paid less than $1000 each per semester to attend. I think I paid $14k-ish. The problem with the policy is that the resident graduates didn't stay in the state of WV and help the state economy. They received a great education for next to nothing and then moved to better states to secure jobs. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/education/majority-of-wv-public-college-grads-leave-state-for-work/article_a9f5cfa3-69b6-5276-8302-e1943406cf16.html.

Enrollment across all colleges is down. It's not special to WVU. Most universities are seeing the decline because Gen-Z has mostly realized that going into debt for an education is not worth it.



Plenty of people think very negatively about Gee. He used to regularly insult Catholics and schools he thought were lesser. Personally, I love the irony of him presiding over a terrible school becoming a joke after complaining that SEC students need to learn how to read and write.
Anonymous
Post 08/15/2023 12:16     Subject: WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages
Anonymous wrote:It is completely nuts to think that a flagship land grant university should replace its entire foreign language department with duolingo. They also are decimating the English department.

These are the bread and butter courses of an undergraduate education.

Gordon Gee is a disgrace who keeps failing into more jobs. The WVU he leaves behind will be slowly collapsing shell rather than an important pillar of the economy.


I never see anyone think anything negatively of him. He's really not been great for the university, tbh. I'm a '07 graduate of WVU and loved my time there. I received an excellent education and was able to go on to a top graduate program and then top med school to become a Psychiatrist.

I have not kept up with the WV state policies, but when I was a student there, WV residents who passed certain exams (like the VA SOLs) with a particular score received a Promise Scholarship to attend WVU for pretty much nothing. I know when I attended, my roommates were both WV residents and paid less than $1000 each per semester to attend. I think I paid $14k-ish. The problem with the policy is that the resident graduates didn't stay in the state of WV and help the state economy. They received a great education for next to nothing and then moved to better states to secure jobs. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/education/majority-of-wv-public-college-grads-leave-state-for-work/article_a9f5cfa3-69b6-5276-8302-e1943406cf16.html.

Enrollment across all colleges is down. It's not special to WVU. Most universities are seeing the decline because Gen-Z has mostly realized that going into debt for an education is not worth it.