Anonymous wrote:She sounds quite precocious. Since she’s realized at, the tender age of four, that camping stinks.

This was my thought. She knows camping sucks and is trying to get out of it.

Smart kid.

You’re learning what I learned well before I had kids… camping sucks. Also my 3yo does all of that stuff now, so I think it’s normal

Oh man, my 4yo struggled on a recent camping trip and I thought it was disrupted sleep and being out of a routine but sounds like I should be getting an evaluation for adhd, autism, etc. it’s really hard to know what behavior is within the realm of “normal” at this age.

So much great advice here. Just so it isn’t overlooked I would emphasize a PP’s point about the role extended family dynamics or even group/social occasions can play in worsening tendencies.

Your DD is old enough to realize she is the challenging child amongst cousins and it can add tension and make her more feel vulnerable and misunderstood. I remember the first time I openly compared and judged my DD. She was only 3 and was the only kid too anxious to join a class group photo. I was embarrassed and said something like “why are you the only one who couldn’t do it?”

It wasn’t a huge deal but to this day I remember her face as I judged her and I still regret it. Now whatever parenting strategies I employ, I make sure she knows I’m her superfan, even if I’m taking a hard line. And the more determined I am to not let her see my own anxiety about how others may perceive her, the less I feel it.

I think parents who have sensitive kids go through so much to keep their kids happy, but it ultimately bites them in the butt. You had good intentions, but yes I think indulging in the throwing the clothes in the dryer thing creates a demanding type monster. My nephews are indulged like this and they have a hard time when they don't immediately get their way (aka at school).

This is a great time to start helping them practice frustration tolerance. You put food on a bluey plate and they ask for a Peppa pig plate. It seems easy to just switch the plates--no big deal in the moment, but indulging their tiny needs makes them unable to deal with bigger problems in the future. For a lot of kids this isn't a big deal, but for sensitive kids, it's just the beginning. This is a perfect time to work on it. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is very clearly anxiety, but at such a high level, and demonstrated for so long (prior to the trip) that I would request an evaluation from a developmental pediatrician, OP.

Inflexibility and anxiety are red flags for autism. Please don't be scared by that diagnosis! I have lots of high-functioning autistic people in my family, and around me. The adults are successful individuals with families, and the kids I know, including my own, are good students with perfectly fine career potential.

But it takes a lot more parenting to get them to that point, and that's why you need professional help and services. Bear in mind that you will probably face a diagnosis of anxiety, first, since that it the most obvious symptom. High-functioning autism can take years to diagnose.

Good luck. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Terrible take. She’s an indulged only child. At home they cater everything to her needs and whims but on this trip she didn’t get that and she didn’t like it.

I am a parent of an only child. She was diagnosed with autism as a teen. She didn’t act like this as child, however it is very common for kids on the spectrum or kids with anxiety to act like this. No one here can say what is at play here - other than it’s not normal behavior, your parenting (avoiding meltdowns at all costs) style needs to be adjusted, and you need to seek out a therapist or developmental pediatrician.

It sounds like your kid has sensory sensitivities and/or anxiety. I get it--one of mine does too. Check out TheOTButterfly.com. The blogger has a kid with sensory difficulties, and she's an OT. You can follow her on Instagram as well. Your parenting didn't cause this; it's just who your kid is.

I'm laughing because in our family a 36yo adult female is the same as you describe your child. She hates bugs, dirt, the feeling of sand on her feet, water with fish in it, being sweaty, being cold, the after smell of a campfire, won't pop a squat, and has all these super in depth routines she can't stray from for making coffee, showering, prepping for bedtime, etc.

So at least your child has 32 more years to not become her level of inflexible

It could just be bad luck.

We went camping and our 4 year old was super excited about every little thing on the trip. No meltdowns, and in fact she was better behaved than at home because she was just so thrilled with everything being new and different. Pure wonder and joy at every tiny thing. But the other day at home during the course of our everyday routine she had a random over-the-top meltdown about how bath time is unfair, when she normally loves bath time.

I think at that age it's random to a large degree.

I have a kid who would have failed at this trip at age 4. He has anxiety and adhd and at age 4 was undiagnosed and unmedicated and just general really hard to handle in any unscripted situation. Sleep schedules and healthy food were mandatory. We said no to many similar trips like this because I knew he wouldn't be at his best, even though it was sad and hard and made me question myself. At age 8, he would love this type of trip though!

So, give your kid some time and space and don't assume this means you can never enjoy camping trips with family. But also take it as a sign that you may need to consider a diagnosis, or at least be aware that your kid has different needs than most 4 year olds. And that is ok. It's also ok for that to bother you! But you're not alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She sounds quite precocious. Since she’s realized at, the tender age of four, that camping stinks.

+1 nothing wrong with your kid. Camping sucks.

I agree.

Think about it: camping is making yourself uncomfortable on purpose. People built houses and invented electricity and running water for a reason. You understand the benefit of camping as an adult (sleeping under the stars! it's very economical!) but for a 4 year old, all they can focus on is being away from the comforts of home and surrounded by a lot of potentially scary stuff (dark, animals in the dark noises, bugs, why does the tent smell bad, potty is far away and in another building with a very loud flusher, etc). Four year olds don't have adult communication and coping skills: tantrums and refusing to do things are their last resort.

Plus, group family vacations come with all kinds of crazy dynamics. Is there sibling rivalry among the adult children in the group that is being passed down to the grandkids? Are the adults in your family biased against only children and automatically cast them as spoiled and indulged just because you listen to your kid and treat her like a fellow human being worthy of dignity and respect?

tl;dr Camping sucks, camping with family can suck even more, and your kid is trying to tell you that it's not working for her, at all. I totally sympathize that it is frustrating, but I don't think her reactions are abnormal, at all.

+1 OP you are probably having a lot of anxiety about Dad's behavior in front of extended family (I am the same) and she is reacting to that and just acting out more.

Anonymous wrote:Was any part of this trip designed for a 4 year old’s needs or was she just the youngest expected to go along with what the group wanted? My kids would be upset if I promised them a playground and neglected to mention that the playground would be too hot to actually, you know, play on. My guess is she’s acting out because you’re focused on visiting extended family and she can’t get your attention to tell you that this trip isn’t working for her. Are her cousins playing with her or are they much older and not interested? Are her grandparents playing with her or are they more of the children should be seen and not heard variety?

+1 my kids would be a wreck at this kind of trip. But they've done great with other travel.

I hate camping so that's my own bias. I would be having tantrums the whole time myself ha.

We've had trips that flopped too. But we are also pretty careful about how the trips will work with the routines etc they are used to.

I would say camping at any age is kind of awful, but especially at 4. But I would also say your child likely has some anxiety or sensory issues that are outside of the norm and you should consider discussing with your pediatrician.

Hey!
So I have a similar child.
Note that my kids go through stages and it's like switches flip, so maybe the camping unlocked a new, unfortunately more difficult stage and you have to power through it and it's not 100% you.

Now, in my case: the meltdowns happen mostly when hungry or tired or bored; in fact, unwarranted crankiness is often a first sign of needing to feed right away. Ensure that she eats enough and often enough.

Boredom: are you letting her alone a lot and expecting her to amuse herself without her usual infrastructure (screens, toys, friends)? Can you enlist other family members to include her so it's not 100% on you -- wash dishes, read to her, show her how to be around the campfire safely, have her help gather sticks for firewood, teach her to recognize wild raspberries, roughhouse with her (a great job for late teen/early 20s make cousins btw)? Mine starts misbehaving when she's bored and even screens have limited effect. Focused time doing something she likes (which might be different from what other kids like - e.g. if they're more bookish and independent) can also do wonders. Can you set her up with activities she can sit and do - water table, cutting piecea of paper, coloring?

For the rigidity and tantrums: I accommodate some things and gamify others, but some fights I fight, especially if I can't fix them anyway (e.g. like with the underwear that was left behind). I don't specially wash an outfit or run through the dryer; it line dries or waits til laundry, and after a few tantrums she knows. I don't allow certain outfits outside the house (e.g. leotards) and we have to change into pants or casual dresses for some things (e.g. bike riding). If I think shoes or a jacket need to stay on, I chase her down and put it on every single tile and threaten a time out if she keeps taking them off, first 10 seconds, then 1 min, then 3, etc. Eventually she stops fighting.

For things that seem to be more anxiety-driven, I use pretend and placebo effect as much as possible. E.g. if her shoes are uncomfortable but I can't see why, I might take them off, put them on, and ask if it's fixed, and often it is. She sometimes gets upset if water gets on her outfit - like, a tiny bit (even though she loves baths and swimming). Then I give her a towel and have her "dry herself" and it's usually enough. I reinforce that screaming and yelling is not ok (especially since it wakes up baby sibling!!), and practice 1-2-3-4-5 timeouts.

I have a pretty high tolerance for yelling, so I can power through misbehavior, tantrums, etc. For a long time if there aren't frantic adults either scolding or trying to placate the yelling child or give too much attention. But I learned to ignore others' discomfort with the yelling and assert my parenting authority while waiting out tantrums in public.... But it's not easy.

Anyways sorry for the wall of text, and I don't know about diagnoses, but good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She sounds quite precocious. Since she’s realized at, the tender age of four, that camping stinks.

+1 nothing wrong with your kid. Camping sucks.

I agree.

Think about it: camping is making yourself uncomfortable on purpose. People built houses and invented electricity and running water for a reason. You understand the benefit of camping as an adult (sleeping under the stars! it's very economical!) but for a 4 year old, all they can focus on is being away from the comforts of home and surrounded by a lot of potentially scary stuff (dark, animals in the dark noises, bugs, why does the tent smell bad, potty is far away and in another building with a very loud flusher, etc). Four year olds don't have adult communication and coping skills: tantrums and refusing to do things are their last resort.

Plus, group family vacations come with all kinds of crazy dynamics. Is there sibling rivalry among the adult children in the group that is being passed down to the grandkids? Are the adults in your family biased against only children and automatically cast them as spoiled and indulged just because you listen to your kid and treat her like a fellow human being worthy of dignity and respect?

tl;dr Camping sucks, camping with family can suck even more, and your kid is trying to tell you that it's not working for her, at all. I totally sympathize that it is frustrating, but I don't think her reactions are abnormal, at all.