Anonymous wrote:I agree with a lot of what has been said. My biggest issues are cost and time commitment. But I will say that it has made my daughter much more confident and resilient and definitely helped on the social front. I figure if I spent 40K on this to get her through middle school depression, maybe it's worth it?

You definitely got a bargain there.

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

I have kids in travel sports and my endgame is to have them develop a strong work ethic, learn to manage time, be active kids today and become active adults tomorrow, have fun, and stay the hell out of trouble.

I have a friend with a daughter in competitive dance, and that’s her attitude as well. I am also making sure they play an instrument and participate in art class at school, but I am not hoping they go into music or art as a career. Sports and dance doesn’t have to be a “pre-career” move.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

They could become competitive dance coaches though, I suppose? What technical skills are competitive dancers typically lacking in and how hard would it be to gain those skills through traditional dance instruction? What aspects of a performance do competitive dance judges consider the most important if not technical skills? Again, I'm not a dance mom so I genuinely am curious about this world.

Their ballet technique is non existent. This foundation is necessary for technique in other areas of dance. They don’t really dance as much as do a lot of acro or tricks all merged together.

Put a professionally trained ballet dancer next to a competition dance and you can automatically tell which is which.

Is the notion of ballet being the foundation of dance universal or just a European cultural norm? Non-European cultures around the world have very complex dances that obviously were not informed by ballet.

I agree with a lot of what has been said. My biggest issues are cost and time commitment. But I will say that it has made my daughter much more confident and resilient and definitely helped on the social front. I figure if I spent 40K on this to get her through middle school depression, maybe it's worth it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

They could become competitive dance coaches though, I suppose? What technical skills are competitive dancers typically lacking in and how hard would it be to gain those skills through traditional dance instruction? What aspects of a performance do competitive dance judges consider the most important if not technical skills? Again, I'm not a dance mom so I genuinely am curious about this world.

Their ballet technique is non existent. This foundation is necessary for technique in other areas of dance. They don’t really dance as much as do a lot of acro or tricks all merged together.

Put a professionally trained ballet dancer next to a competition dance and you can automatically tell which is which.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

So much further, meaning what? Professional athletes at least make buckets of money. Professional dancers are sharing an apartment in NYC with several others. Avg salary for a professional dancer is 50k

No one in your child’s club sports or whatever you call it are future professional athletes. Hopefully the kids are just enjoying playing with other kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

There is no end game. It’s purely to do an activity that our kid loves and is skilled at. (I am speaking on behalf of the other dance moms I know). Much like how kids join club soccer or volleyball or whatever. We will switch to the high school dance or cheer team. In other words, it’s not for college.

This is one reason I am so irate at competitive dance. Most of these kids dance because they love it, and they’ve worked very hard and done everything “they’re supposed to” and yet Studios see families as a meal ticket. They constantly move the goal posts. There is favoritism. They demand their time to inappropriate levels. We sign a ONE YEAR contract. We must get approval to go out of town.

I highly discourage anyone from competitive dance. If you have a young dancer, join a studio that eschews competition.

This. I posted above about just joining a studio that teaches technique and will do performances but does not participate in competitions. That makes perfect sense for any kid who loves dance even if they never "do" anything with it -- it's okay to just have interests and hobbies. I also think dance is wonderful for children because it's active and artistic at the same time, teaches them rhythm and appreciation for music. Enjoying dance, having some grace on a dance floor, feeling comfortable moving your body and awareness of it -- all of that has social and mental health benefits. I think of my DH who has always felt incredibly self conscious dancing, even just at a wedding, and once told me he felt it was "too late" for him to learn. I think he would have benefited from taking some dance classes as a kid and learning that not only is it okay to dance, it's fun.

The competition teams strip the fun out of it. It's a money grab and they will take and take and take and take, as much as you can give them. They make dance stressful and competitive (for absolutely no reason! the only circumstances under which dance *needs* to be competitive is if you are professional track dancer who is competing for spots in a school, roles, or meaningfully prestigious scholarships like YAGP or similar -- it's not a sport and for any kid who doesn't intent to pursue it professionally, competition should really be at a minimum). Also, has anyone mentioned how common injuries are in competitive dance? Because they don't teach proper technique, overtrain for performance, and often don't care about the dancers at all? Because that's part of it too.

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

There is no end game. It’s purely to do an activity that our kid loves and is skilled at. (I am speaking on behalf of the other dance moms I know). Much like how kids join club soccer or volleyball or whatever. We will switch to the high school dance or cheer team. In other words, it’s not for college.

This is one reason I am so irate at competitive dance. Most of these kids dance because they love it, and they’ve worked very hard and done everything “they’re supposed to” and yet Studios see families as a meal ticket. They constantly move the goal posts. There is favoritism. They demand their time to inappropriate levels. We sign a ONE YEAR contract. We must get approval to go out of town.

I highly discourage anyone from competitive dance. If you have a young dancer, join a studio that eschews competition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

They could become competitive dance coaches though, I suppose? What technical skills are competitive dancers typically lacking in and how hard would it be to gain those skills through traditional dance instruction? What aspects of a performance do competitive dance judges consider the most important if not technical skills? Again, I'm not a dance mom so I genuinely am curious about this world.

Dance mom here, and I'll just say this. You have to shop for the right studio. Ours does competitions but we do not have a max rehearsal absence policy, the director and instructors are working on technique but also confidence/teamwork/etc. The "end game" for my girls is not scholarships or professional careers, but exploring their love of dance with their friends. The dance comp factory schools exist for sure, but you absolutely can find the studios with the right vibe. So shop around, take some trial classes and if you don't get the warm and fuzzy feeling, keep moving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

So much further, meaning what? Professional athletes at least make buckets of money. Professional dancers are sharing an apartment in NYC with several others. Avg salary for a professional dancer is 50k

True, but some do quite well. Full time teachers are doing well in reputable studios. Far above the public school teachers salary. Broadway tours pay excellently. Theme park dancers that make the switch to choreography earn high salaries. Mandy Moore and Joey Pizzi pay their dancers and assistants exceptionally well. Im thinking outer up and coming choreographers do too. The commercial and music artists concert circuit are fabulous work. It's the company concert and contemporary dancers, as well as ballet specialists that end up poor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

So much further, meaning what? Professional athletes at least make buckets of money. Professional dancers are sharing an apartment in NYC with several others. Avg salary for a professional dancer is 50k

Anonymous wrote:What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Competitive dancers are typically unemployable by casting agents due to lack of technical skill and odd facial expressions fostered in the comp scene. A few will land jobs in the lesser cruielines. A couple might go on to college admission in the terrible no audition dance programs like UMD. Still will not get a job in dance so do not waste you $ on a dance major at UMD. In fact, don't send your kids to a school that has teachers from there. It's a sign of a weak program and they don't know what they don't know.

A performance based program with solid technical training will get a student much farther.

What is the endgame with competitive dance for kids? Keeping it up through HS to get a scholarship? Julliard? Why would anyone go this route vs studying at a studio and doing non-competitive performances once in a while? So many questions because I am not a "dance mom." With youth travel sports the endgame is recruitment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t do it. That is my best advice.

+1
They lure you in with the claim of no experience necessary—and they select accordingly. But the next thing you know they are yelling at the kids and making them cry! And be forewarned that it won’t be long before they pressure you into adding 2-3 more classes….. an additional class for ballet fundamentals, another class for conditioning and strength, another for stretch and flexibility……in addition to the team practice she already goes to twice a week. They’ll remind you that you signed on to a “competitive team” and your daughter needs to demonstrate her commitment and develop her skills so she can catch up and stay on the squad.

Dance moms, do I have that right?

100%

That’s my exact experience. And I will add it is all to line the pockets of the studio owners.

Nope- not my experience

No one cares