Anonymous wrote:Childless men who feel like this are getting screwed... this is cultural and likely you are part of the problem.

Years ago, I read an interview with the editor of a major magazine, who had just had recently had kids. She said the single biggest lesson in becoming a mom was in watching how her staff worked... before she had kids, she used to think that the people staying late were the hardest workers and the most productive members of her team. But afterward, when she was managing her time and her work to be able to leave at 5, she looked at all the others doing the same with respect - and started asked herself what the heck are these people staying late doing all day? Why are they so unproductive and inefficient that they need to stay late?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

I’m a guy and I agree 1000 percent. When I was in Biglaw I always chafed at the men and women with kids who for some reason thought they were entitled to special consideration over the single or childless simply because they had kids. WTF? Single and childless folks are entitled to have a life too.

I’ll never understand people who prioritize work over a personal life of any kind. I think it’s really sad.

Do you have kids?
I’m a woman, and maybe this is different for men, but from the time I had my first child, raising my kids became my main job. My paid work is a far, far second.
I get special consideration because if my job interferes with raising my kids, then I’m out.
I’m not in a position where I am living paycheck to paycheck or I can’t get another job.

Yes I have kids and you’ve completely missed my point.

I don’t get your point then.
If you want a job where you have time for your hobbies, then tell people that and quit if you don’t get it.

DP - the one who originally posted about time for health and other hobbies as often overlooked in these considerations. Some parents might act entitled about taking leave, but most of us just want humane parental leave policies, which we still don’t have in this country, not universally. Frankly, as a mother of three kids, I don’t have a ton of sympathy for someone who gets pissy because I expect to be able to leave at 5pm every day or whatever. If someone perceives it as entitlement, that might be their own defensiveness at wanting time off for marathon training or sleeping or playing the drums or whatever and not feeling comfortable asking for it. You think it’s comfortable telling your boss you’re pregnant? Pregnant again? Need to go on bed rest?

Anyhoo - most recent PP is right: if you want a job that affords time for family/hobbies/sleep, take a job that gives you that. My larger point was that when people ask this question (can I have a high powered career and still see my kids?) they often ignore other relevant questions, such as, will I have time to regularly sleep more than 7 hours a night? Will I have time to exercise? Can I still keep up my friendships? If you want your life solely to be about career and kids, think about how that will play out long term (usually not well).

There are years and years when life is solely about career and kids. It works out fine if you realize it's only temporary and have a supportive spouse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

I’m a guy and I agree 1000 percent. When I was in Biglaw I always chafed at the men and women with kids who for some reason thought they were entitled to special consideration over the single or childless simply because they had kids. WTF? Single and childless folks are entitled to have a life too.

I’ll never understand people who prioritize work over a personal life of any kind. I think it’s really sad.

Do you have kids?
I’m a woman, and maybe this is different for men, but from the time I had my first child, raising my kids became my main job. My paid work is a far, far second.
I get special consideration because if my job interferes with raising my kids, then I’m out.
I’m not in a position where I am living paycheck to paycheck or I can’t get another job.

Yes I have kids and you’ve completely missed my point.

I don’t get your point then.
If you want a job where you have time for your hobbies, then tell people that and quit if you don’t get it.

DP - the one who originally posted about time for health and other hobbies as often overlooked in these considerations. Some parents might act entitled about taking leave, but most of us just want humane parental leave policies, which we still don’t have in this country, not universally. Frankly, as a mother of three kids, I don’t have a ton of sympathy for someone who gets pissy because I expect to be able to leave at 5pm every day or whatever. If someone perceives it as entitlement, that might be their own defensiveness at wanting time off for marathon training or sleeping or playing the drums or whatever and not feeling comfortable asking for it. You think it’s comfortable telling your boss you’re pregnant? Pregnant again? Need to go on bed rest?

Anyhoo - most recent PP is right: if you want a job that affords time for family/hobbies/sleep, take a job that gives you that. My larger point was that when people ask this question (can I have a high powered career and still see my kids?) they often ignore other relevant questions, such as, will I have time to regularly sleep more than 7 hours a night? Will I have time to exercise? Can I still keep up my friendships? If you want your life solely to be about career and kids, think about how that will play out long term (usually not well).

There are years and years when life is solely about career and kids. It works out fine if you realize it's only temporary and have a supportive spouse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trick was to have my children when I was at a point in my career to be able to dictate the terms that made sense to me. I took six months with each of them, then went back part time until they were each one. Then I did lean back into my work, but set boundaries like I pick up my kids every day. I get back on after they’re in bed.

Another poster has it right— you triage and prioritize. My husband and kids get first dibs. If they’re not getting enough I don’t try to stretch myself to friends or extended family. When my kids need a little less I’ll have a little more to give.

The thing is childhood is short. I know a lot of really unhappy moms of high school students who now resent reporting to 30-something’s because they let their careers stagnate and now they have decades left in the workforce in the menial levels. That life never appealed to me.

When my kids need a little less…I used to say things like this. Now I’ve been dealing with teen problems. They can’t be solved by 9pm, and in some ways the after work hours are far more intense than those hours were when they were toddlers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trick was to have my children when I was at a point in my career to be able to dictate the terms that made sense to me. I took six months with each of them, then went back part time until they were each one. Then I did lean back into my work, but set boundaries like I pick up my kids every day. I get back on after they’re in bed.

Another poster has it right— you triage and prioritize. My husband and kids get first dibs. If they’re not getting enough I don’t try to stretch myself to friends or extended family. When my kids need a little less I’ll have a little more to give.

The thing is childhood is short. I know a lot of really unhappy moms of high school students who now resent reporting to 30-something’s because they let their careers stagnate and now they have decades left in the workforce in the menial levels. That life never appealed to me.

When my kids need a little less…I used to say things like this. Now I’ve been dealing with teen problems. They can’t be solved by 9pm, and in some ways the after work hours are far more intense than those hours were when they were toddlers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

porches.

This! All the "high power" women I know have crap relationships with their kids are are disgustingly fat/out of shape, sometimes both. Prioritize what is important to you. For me I like my medium power career, wonderful meaningful relationships, and enjoy great health. I'm probably a nobody to most people though.

And for men this is the same. It's just that society doesn't punish them for sacrificing their relationships with their kids the way women are stigmatized. And society doesn't seem to care if the men are fat and orange, like Trump, but geez if he were a woman of that obesity...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

I’m a guy and I agree 1000 percent. When I was in Biglaw I always chafed at the men and women with kids who for some reason thought they were entitled to special consideration over the single or childless simply because they had kids. WTF? Single and childless folks are entitled to have a life too.

I’ll never understand people who prioritize work over a personal life of any kind. I think it’s really sad.

Do you have kids?
I’m a woman, and maybe this is different for men, but from the time I had my first child, raising my kids became my main job. My paid work is a far, far second.
I get special consideration because if my job interferes with raising my kids, then I’m out.
I’m not in a position where I am living paycheck to paycheck or I can’t get another job.

Yes I have kids and you’ve completely missed my point.

I don’t get your point then.
If you want a job where you have time for your hobbies, then tell people that and quit if you don’t get it.

DP - the one who originally posted about time for health and other hobbies as often overlooked in these considerations. Some parents might act entitled about taking leave, but most of us just want humane parental leave policies, which we still don’t have in this country, not universally. Frankly, as a mother of three kids, I don’t have a ton of sympathy for someone who gets pissy because I expect to be able to leave at 5pm every day or whatever. If someone perceives it as entitlement, that might be their own defensiveness at wanting time off for marathon training or sleeping or playing the drums or whatever and not feeling comfortable asking for it. You think it’s comfortable telling your boss you’re pregnant? Pregnant again? Need to go on bed rest?

Anyhoo - most recent PP is right: if you want a job that affords time for family/hobbies/sleep, take a job that gives you that. My larger point was that when people ask this question (can I have a high powered career and still see my kids?) they often ignore other relevant questions, such as, will I have time to regularly sleep more than 7 hours a night? Will I have time to exercise? Can I still keep up my friendships? If you want your life solely to be about career and kids, think about how that will play out long term (usually not well).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

porches.

This! All the "high power" women I know have crap relationships with their kids are are disgustingly fat/out of shape, sometimes both. Prioritize what is important to you. For me I like my medium power career, wonderful meaningful relationships, and enjoy great health. I'm probably a nobody to most people though.

And for men this is the same. It's just that society doesn't punish them for sacrificing their relationships with their kids the way women are stigmatized. And society doesn't seem to care if the men are fat and orange, like Trump, but geez if he were a woman of that obesity...

I've never seen women with big jobs being systematically fatter in any organization I've worked. In fact, there's a negative relationship between income and BMI for women that doesn't exist for men. This just isn't a thing. If anything, the athlete culture is even stronger for women in positions of power than men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re asking specifically about relationships, so maybe this comment is irrelevant, but I think some of the other trade-offs of a “big” career + family are wrongly ignored. Things like sleep, exercise, stress management. Some people can handle more stress than others, absolutely, but SO many high-powered people and women especially run themselves ragged, at times to the point of illness.

Ultimately, you have to prioritize relationships. You can’t work long hours and spend sufficient time with kids AND spouse AND friends AND other family, not typically. But people have different needs on those fronts, too - it comes down to what you value.

I’m a guy and I agree 1000 percent. When I was in Biglaw I always chafed at the men and women with kids who for some reason thought they were entitled to special consideration over the single or childless simply because they had kids. WTF? Single and childless folks are entitled to have a life too.

I’ll never understand people who prioritize work over a personal life of any kind. I think it’s really sad.

Also a guy, and I noticed this during my days as a young, single consultant. The unwritten rule was that everybody had to stay late, except this one guy who had a young kid left every day at 5...and the rest of us were fine with that. But I suppose if any of us complained it would affect our performance review, which was a cutthroat competition to see who could be the best team player. Man am I glad I left that life behind.