Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ When fathers repartner later in life, they are more likely to prioritize the romantic relationship and new children, while ties to their preexisting children often become weaker.”

But sure blame the moms..

The dads prioritize the new wife and kids BECAUSE first wife is denying him a relationship with his first set of kids. He has no other option.

I was one of those “first set of kids” and I couldn’t have a relationship with my dad until I was an adult. He explained to me that my mom had denied him access to us. And I believed him.

Oh man are you gullible. This is the lie men tell the kids they neglected bc they couldn’t deal with their own flaws and their own anger at paying what is usually minimal child support while the first wife does all the work and bites her tongue not to badmouth the ahole.

“Mothers are sometimes gatekeepers, preventing or making it difficult for children to have contact if they are in conflict with the father after divorce or separation,” said Phil and Carolyn Cowan, professors emeriti of psychology at UC Berkeley.

Sometimes? Sure.
Usually? Nope.

Exactly. The article also listed a whole bunch of things Dads do that contribute to their own alienation.

The title of this thread is just one thing on the list.

This. The article itself doesn't even really show that moms gatekeeper except in extreme examples. Rather, it shows that men don't work on relationships with their kids and this has a negative impact on their relationships (duh). Moms may or may not facilitate that relationship, but the very fact that moms HAVE to facilitate that relationship in order for it to happen is sort of the problem.

This is also why dads are more likely to have better relationships with kids in second marriages -- the mom is there! Moms do so much work (here's that invisible labor we talk about all the time) to help their husbands form and maintain strong bonds with their kids. And when divorce happens, a lot of moms drop that rope.

What needs to happen is for men to take responsibility for their own relationships with their kids. In marriage, in divorce. Boys need to be raised to understand that they are responsible for their end in relationships. This is not something that women should have to do for you.

No, dads have better relationships with second marriage kids as those kids are living with him 24-7 and he’s actively parenting them vs seeing them at best a few days a month when mom allows it.

Mom doesn't decide when he sees his kids -- custody arrangement must be approved by the family court. If mom isn't following the agreement, dad can petition the court for enforcement anytime he wants. Moms are not in charge of this.

The truth is that mom is simply raising her children, dad has gone off and had a second family with someone else, he's focused on his new wife and new kids, and he does not prioritize his older children. That is his choice. No one forced him to remarry or have more kids, and no one, including mom, is stopping him from actively parenting his older children. The law protects him and gives him every opportunity to be a full time father to them. If he doesn't, that's on him. It's definitely not on the kids mom.

It’s very clear you have not be involved in a situation where the moms skirted the custody order and dad tried to enforce. You guys are really underestimating what goes on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very true that relationships with kids are facilitated (or not) by their mothers to a large degree. My ex has a child with me and a child from his first marriage. The first mother does way less work facilitating their relationship than I do (I don’t blame her, just stating the fact). I had to stay in good terms with my ex exactly to help our child develop a relationship with his dad even though he left.
I was extremely surprised when my ex recently thanked me for “maintaining harmony” between us three. I was sure this labor was only visible to me.

As to gatekeeping, it usually happens when moms see - rightly or not - that the time with dad doesn’t quite benefit the kids. Some dads don’t take kids places or to activities on their watch, some dads subject them to, ahem, less than ideal conditions, and so on.

“Rightly or not” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Who cares if the dad takes kids to places or activities on their watch. That’s the very definition of gatekeeper.

The PP is being delicate here. She's talking about situations where dad's custody time involves sitting around his 1 bedroom apartment watching TV, not doing homework, not spending time with friends, eating poor quality food (sometimes that the kids must prepare themselves because dad doesn't know how and doesn't care to learn), sometimes exposing the kids to friends and women who are negative influences and may be involved in drinking to excess, drug use, and other activities that the mom does not feel comfortable having her kids around.

That's "ahem, less than ideal conditions" and it's incredibly common when the divorce occurred precisely because the mom grew up and got responsible when the kids arrived and the dad remained in a state of arrested development, complaining about the inconvenience of kids cramping his preferred way of living. Mom takes on the bulk of the childcare in the marriage because dad just wants to hang with his friends and do whatever, then they divorce, and dad descends back into bachelor life with no effort to create a home or a loving, supportive environment for kids.

So yeah, moms "gatekeep" in that situation because they don't want their kids around someone who takes so little interest in them and isn't willing to do even the minimal things to raise functional kids. "Rightly or not."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but believing that Bs is the lie you collude in and tell yourself bc the truth — that your dad was a pos who abandoned you for selfish reasons — is too painful.

Your mom takes the fall when she did all the hard work. She worked, she mothered you, she maintained your schedule and your home and your friendships, she cooked your dinners. And you believe your dad?

You don't have a single clue what PP's mother did or didn't do.

My mother was an evil, manipulative beyotch that wasn't speaking with 3 of her 4 kids whene she died alone in a hospice center.

She lied and lied and lied about my our dad 'left'. He didn't. She abused him.

Now we, and our children have a wonderful relationship with him.

So, your mom was an abuser and your dad left, fully aware that his children were now alone with an abuser. What kind of person leaves defenseless children alone with an abuser?

It appears that his priority was to get himself to safety, without taking care to make sure his children were also safe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ When fathers repartner later in life, they are more likely to prioritize the romantic relationship and new children, while ties to their preexisting children often become weaker.”

But sure blame the moms..

The dads prioritize the new wife and kids BECAUSE first wife is denying him a relationship with his first set of kids. He has no other option.

I was one of those “first set of kids” and I couldn’t have a relationship with my dad until I was an adult. He explained to me that my mom had denied him access to us. And I believed him.

Oh man are you gullible. This is the lie men tell the kids they neglected bc they couldn’t deal with their own flaws and their own anger at paying what is usually minimal child support while the first wife does all the work and bites her tongue not to badmouth the ahole.

“Mothers are sometimes gatekeepers, preventing or making it difficult for children to have contact if they are in conflict with the father after divorce or separation,” said Phil and Carolyn Cowan, professors emeriti of psychology at UC Berkeley.

Sometimes? Sure.
Usually? Nope.

Exactly. The article also listed a whole bunch of things Dads do that contribute to their own alienation.

The title of this thread is just one thing on the list.

This. The article itself doesn't even really show that moms gatekeeper except in extreme examples. Rather, it shows that men don't work on relationships with their kids and this has a negative impact on their relationships (duh). Moms may or may not facilitate that relationship, but the very fact that moms HAVE to facilitate that relationship in order for it to happen is sort of the problem.

This is also why dads are more likely to have better relationships with kids in second marriages -- the mom is there! Moms do so much work (here's that invisible labor we talk about all the time) to help their husbands form and maintain strong bonds with their kids. And when divorce happens, a lot of moms drop that rope.

What needs to happen is for men to take responsibility for their own relationships with their kids. In marriage, in divorce. Boys need to be raised to understand that they are responsible for their end in relationships. This is not something that women should have to do for you.

No, dads have better relationships with second marriage kids as those kids are living with him 24-7 and he’s actively parenting them vs seeing them at best a few days a month when mom allows it.

Mom doesn't decide when he sees his kids -- custody arrangement must be approved by the family court. If mom isn't following the agreement, dad can petition the court for enforcement anytime he wants. Moms are not in charge of this.

The truth is that mom is simply raising her children, dad has gone off and had a second family with someone else, he's focused on his new wife and new kids, and he does not prioritize his older children. That is his choice. No one forced him to remarry or have more kids, and no one, including mom, is stopping him from actively parenting his older children. The law protects him and gives him every opportunity to be a full time father to them. If he doesn't, that's on him. It's definitely not on the kids mom.

Anonymous wrote:It is very true that relationships with kids are facilitated (or not) by their mothers to a large degree. My ex has a child with me and a child from his first marriage. The first mother does way less work facilitating their relationship than I do (I don’t blame her, just stating the fact). I had to stay in good terms with my ex exactly to help our child develop a relationship with his dad even though he left.
I was extremely surprised when my ex recently thanked me for “maintaining harmony” between us three. I was sure this labor was only visible to me.

As to gatekeeping, it usually happens when moms see - rightly or not - that the time with dad doesn’t quite benefit the kids. Some dads don’t take kids places or to activities on their watch, some dads subject them to, ahem, less than ideal conditions, and so on.

“Rightly or not” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Who cares if the dad takes kids to places or activities on their watch. That’s the very definition of gatekeeper.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ When fathers repartner later in life, they are more likely to prioritize the romantic relationship and new children, while ties to their preexisting children often become weaker.”

But sure blame the moms..

The dads prioritize the new wife and kids BECAUSE first wife is denying him a relationship with his first set of kids. He has no other option.

I was one of those “first set of kids” and I couldn’t have a relationship with my dad until I was an adult. He explained to me that my mom had denied him access to us. And I believed him.

Denied access? Was your father in prison, and your mother wouldn’t let you visit? Which, honestly, the court usually mandates even those visits if the father wants them.

Your father didn’t fight for any custody. And if your mother refuses to allow him to see you- then he should have called a lawyer. More likely, he decided it wasn’t worth the effort.

I’m sorry you went through that.

So many of you are really naive about the financial and emotional price of “fighting” to increase custody.

Right well now it’s 50 years later and any man who wants 50% gets it, even if he abused the wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men take care of the kids of the woman he is sleeping with.

Often, “gatekeeping” means a woman refuses to grant her ex sexual access to her body. Which leads to him not seeing his kids, and then claiming she is keeping them away from him.

Bingo.

I have to say, this fact about men was a total revelation to me as an adult woman. It is incredibly sobering to understand that this int he way the world works. No one tells you this growing up.

In a way, this is progress. Women of prior generations were acutely aware that marriage meant a reduction in sexual autonomy.

That is the literal purpose of marriage. Wearing white and all = lamb to slaughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men take care of the kids of the woman he is sleeping with.

Often, “gatekeeping” means a woman refuses to grant her ex sexual access to her body. Which leads to him not seeing his kids, and then claiming she is keeping them away from him.

Bingo.

I have to say, this fact about men was a total revelation to me as an adult woman. It is incredibly sobering to understand that this int he way the world works. No one tells you this growing up.

In a way, this is progress. Women of prior generations were acutely aware that marriage meant a reduction in sexual autonomy.

To add on you are mixing up reasons for divorce with care. Any parent wife or husband that leaves their kids checks out of parenting. I mean the reality is right there. For decades now parents have had 50/50 custody. If they don’t have it it’s on them. The bar is very low to have half custody.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men take care of the kids of the woman he is sleeping with.

Often, “gatekeeping” means a woman refuses to grant her ex sexual access to her body. Which leads to him not seeing his kids, and then claiming she is keeping them away from him.

Bingo.

I have to say, this fact about men was a total revelation to me as an adult woman. It is incredibly sobering to understand that this int he way the world works. No one tells you this growing up.

He’s not Taking Care of any kids.
The new wife is, he’s just playing house along with her for a long as she’ll have him tag along.

I knew at least two men with 2nd wives and children, where the 2nd wife refused to allow him to see the first child. I grew up in the extended family not even knowing that these men had a previous marriage or relationship and had other children. It's still the father's responsibility. That's another complication.

The other thing is that child support is so low that it sinks the first family into poverty. Even if the dad does see the kids it’s for a playdate often where they splurge the kid and it comes across as if dad is being generous and fun but they are paying so little for the actual upbringing and doing so little of the work to raise the children. Basically the family that has less money and time to actually mother verses working gets the better deal.

It is very true that relationships with kids are facilitated (or not) by their mothers to a large degree. My ex has a child with me and a child from his first marriage. The first mother does way less work facilitating their relationship than I do (I don’t blame her, just stating the fact). I had to stay in good terms with my ex exactly to help our child develop a relationship with his dad even though he left.
I was extremely surprised when my ex recently thanked me for “maintaining harmony” between us three. I was sure this labor was only visible to me.

As to gatekeeping, it usually happens when moms see - rightly or not - that the time with dad doesn’t quite benefit the kids. Some dads don’t take kids places or to activities on their watch, some dads subject them to, ahem, less than ideal conditions, and so on.

Anonymous wrote:Men take care of the kids of the woman he is sleeping with.

Often, “gatekeeping” means a woman refuses to grant her ex sexual access to her body. Which leads to him not seeing his kids, and then claiming she is keeping them away from him.

Bingo.

I have to say, this fact about men was a total revelation to me as an adult woman. It is incredibly sobering to understand that this int he way the world works. No one tells you this growing up.