Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op you are in your mid 40s and only have $40k in savings? Why are you so financially irresponsible?
If you must, loan her the money and then when he assets are sold, you get $4k off the top before the sister. You really are unbelievable.

Did you miss the part where I said my husband and I recently bought our first home? Also we have had several
Expensive home repairs lately. And we have spent the better part of our lives digging out of 100K of student loan debt. We are also paying for two kids in child care fill time. We have plenty in retirement, college funds, and we both are intentionally in jobs where we are earning pensions, and we have 15k in a brokerage. But 4k is not nothing to us.

That's fair. I think you need to let go of anger and judgment. The past is what it is. She chose to be a homemaker for 20 years and had custody battles. You worked her to get out of student debt and save responsibly. I get it. But you have what you have right now. She isn't going to work full time, forget that. Forgot choices that cannot be changed at this point.

I looked back at your OP. The positives: you say she is a kind person who sacrified a lot financially to help DH. She has 150k in a 401k that she has not touched in two years of retirement. That's a good sign - she's spending what she's earning in SS and not drawing down what she has. That doesn't scream reckless overspending to me. You acknowledge that the kitchen remodel was badly needed, and it sounds like she has been keeping up with the interest only payments, so she's not wrecking her credit. Her house is nearly paid off, she has no other debt that you know of, and she's going to be a paid babysitter for DIL soon. That's not THAT bad. It does seem plausible that if she get out from under this HELOC debt, she could live within her means and it will get easier as the house is paid off.

I agree with you that 4k is not nothing for you and that this can't be the start of paying her expenses regularly. So yes, I agree with your original statement "I feel like if he wants to do this, then there needs to be some transparency on her end,
Eg she allow my husband to take a full look at her finances and assets so there are no more surprises and he can help her plan, which he thinks is unreasonable." I do think that's reasonable. I just would try approacing this with a different attitude. We all can sense that you dislike and judge MIL, and I'm sure that's more apparent in person when taking into account your body and language and tone of voice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

custody battles for your husband?

Yes, she had two different marriages and two different husbands and fought each multiple times in court over custody of the kids from each marriage (she never got sole but wanted it). She also has just made a slew of poor financial decisions, has racked up lots of credit card/other debt, co-signed private loans for my DH when he was an undergrad (before required financial disclosures and counseling students get now) with high interest rates instead of getting public loans with lower interest rates that he could have gotten, has always leased new cars instead of buying cars, etc. She graduated college and from her masters program debt free. She stayed at home with kids for 20 years in part because she did it want to work. She’s inherited money from her parents and blown through it all. She has refused for decades to go to a financial planner despite everyone suggesting it. She didn’t even start investing in a 401k until her sixties.

As a person who graduated college with nothing but debt and got through it on Pell grants, worked really hard with my husband to crawl out of 100K in student loan debt, built up our savings, delayed child bearing til we could afford it, waited to buy our first house in our late 30s when we could actually afford it, and has worked full time for 20 years and is staring down 30 more years it feels wrong to me to give away nearly 10 percent of our cash savings to his MIL because of her poor decision when I have made so many sacrifices to try and put our family in a good financial position.

DP and I think this $4K will just be the start of another $4K and then bigger amounts. Sorry but she isn't going to suddenly become financially sound and make good choices.

I do think you and your DH need to think about it a lot more and discuss a real plan. It's not too late for your MIL to learn money management skills but I am going to guess she avoids it bc she doesn't want to really know how bad her situation is and fears that there is simply no way to deal with it. And the truth is, she might have very few options and her age. Also, your DH and sister need to be very realistic. The house might need to be sold sooner rather than later and the replacement may not be the same size or kind of home that she is in now

I know you mentioned she is going to pay off the home in a few years but I think you should be very careful there and find out if she has other HELOCS or if she has looked into a reverse mortgage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

Anonymous wrote:Op you are in your mid 40s and only have $40k in savings? Why are you so financially irresponsible?
If you must, loan her the money and then when he assets are sold, you get $4k off the top before the sister. You really are unbelievable.

Did you miss the part where I said my husband and I recently bought our first home? Also we have had several
Expensive home repairs lately. And we have spent the better part of our lives digging out of 100K of student loan debt. We are also paying for two kids in child care fill time. We have plenty in retirement, college funds, and we both are intentionally in jobs where we are earning pensions, and we have 15k in a brokerage. But 4k is not nothing to us.

I would be annoyed as well but I would give her the $4k. If you feel so strongly it shouldn’t come out of joint finances, then have your husband pay back your savings account over time. Can it be contingent on closing the HELOC so she can’t rack up a balance there again?

Anonymous wrote:Of course you give the money, as a gift. She is family. Keep in mind that not everyone have the same financial smarts and that is ok. She sounds like she has a game plan and it could work. Give the old lady some credit. Your husband is a good man.

What do you in 3 months when she needs another $5K?

People who wear pockets and purses with holes are constants dropping money in them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

There’s no hope for you op. I hope your kids are nicer to you than you are to your mil. If I was your DH, I’d seriously consider divorcing you.

Op you are in your mid 40s and only have $40k in savings? Why are you so financially irresponsible?
If you must, loan her the money and then when he assets are sold, you get $4k off the top before the sister. You really are unbelievable.

Every comment op makes worsens my perception of her.

Give her the money an exchange for a legal financial guardianship, and a monthly allowance for her.

Yes, you are an ass. Give her the 4K! All of her ‘mistakes’ were to help her kids, your husband! It makes much more financial sense to get rid of this debt now and move forward. She’s old!

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you are the a-hole for expecting a 69 year old woman to work full time and naive about her ability to do so after being fired at age 67 (likely because of her age). I would maybe be on your side if she willingly walked away from an easy job at 62 but that isn’t what happened.

That said, it isn’t clear that having your MIL pay off the remodel debt in full (with the help of you and DH and SIL) is the right financial move here. If it is, yes, give her the money as a gift. You can talk to your DH about how he can earn some extra money, if you must, but expecting a 69 YO to be able to get and hold a job that is going to provide meaningful income is not realistic.

I’m OP. Fine - she may not be able to find a full time job. Even so, she has not tried and won’t. She actually looks very young so is often mistaken for 10 plus years younger. But whatever.

All that said - she keeps saying she will get a side bustle that brings in more
Money. We have given her a million suggestions for side gigs that are easy and would provide reliable income - because she does need some more income. She won’t even pursue that. She says she does not want to have to have a schedule. How am I supposed to respond to that?

Anonymous wrote:She needs to get out of the MLM and find some part time work. Most people in MLM's lose money and she shouldn't be risking this. And don't flame, I'm in my 60s and working- and would never dream of my kids having to do this.

? where do you get that she's doing MLMs?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

custody battles for your husband?

Yes, she had two different marriages and two different husbands and fought each multiple times in court over custody of the kids from each marriage (she never got sole but wanted it). She also has just made a slew of poor financial decisions, has racked up lots of credit card/other debt, co-signed private loans for my DH when he was an undergrad (before required financial disclosures and counseling students get now) with high interest rates instead of getting public loans with lower interest rates that he could have gotten, has always leased new cars instead of buying cars, etc. She graduated college and from her masters program debt free. She stayed at home with kids for 20 years in part because she did it want to work. She’s inherited money from her parents and blown through it all. She has refused for decades to go to a financial planner despite everyone suggesting it. She didn’t even start investing in a 401k until her sixties.

As a person who graduated college with nothing but debt and got through it on Pell grants, worked really hard with my husband to crawl out of 100K in student loan debt, built up our savings, delayed child bearing til we could afford it, waited to buy our first house in our late 30s when we could actually afford it, and has worked full time for 20 years and is staring down 30 more years it feels wrong to me to give away nearly 10 percent of our cash savings to his MIL because of her poor decision when I have made so many sacrifices to try and put our family in a good financial position.

She needs to get out of the MLM and find some part time work. Most people in MLM's lose money and she shouldn't be risking this. And don't flame, I'm in my 60s and working- and would never dream of my kids having to do this.