Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to risk nuclear war for the “Donbas.”

Time to end this war.

Oh bullshit. Russia also made the same threats about if we would send HIMARS... but did nothing. And the same threats over Patriot batteries and everything else. Russia is not stupid enough to risk its own nuclear annihilation over Donbas either.

They pulled out the nuclear card in the first week of the invasion. Shows they are weak.

Anonymous wrote:Are you happy with this escalation, or opposed?

Personally, I am opposed and I fear this will lead to a wider war.

Russia escalated with supersonic missile strikes at Kyiv. Their miscalculation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So where are these F-16s going to be based? That's the real question. If they are based in Ukraine, then they won't matter much. If based in Poland, this is a huge deal.

How so?

If you mean why isn't it a big deal if they are based in Ukraine, its because they will be difficult to maintain and easy to destroy on the ground.

If they are based in Poland its a big deal because its an escalation of Polish/NATO involvement. Downing a "Ukrainian" F-16 over Polish airspace would be very likely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you happy with this escalation, or opposed?

Personally, I am opposed and I fear this will lead to a wider war.

I also hope Biden will try to broker a deal to avoid escalation. Maybe if Russia agrees not to use its planes to bomb Ukrainian cities Ukraine will agree not to bomb cities in Russia.

DP and this is my biggest concern - I don’t think there will be nuclear anything but I don’t want civilians to die on either side.
I know I am talking like a layperson not a politician but I don’t really care who rules both these countries or how they are divided up - I am sure people will figure out their lives under either president. I do care for no more lives lost though, no more cities bombed, and no more tears shed.

So I take it you'd happily live under president Putin as well, if it came to pass that he became your president by force?

Ukraine is not America. It's not an American territory. It's not in NATO. It's nowhere geographically near us. We are not the policeman or emperors of the world.

I honestly think the goal is to prevent Russia from becoming too strong. The whole eastward expansion of NATO had that goal.
Putin knew it, he just lost his cool too much/became crazy under covid isolation and went a bit too far. I will go as far as to say he may have been provoked to start the war.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you happy with this escalation, or opposed?

Personally, I am opposed and I fear this will lead to a wider war.

I also hope Biden will try to broker a deal to avoid escalation. Maybe if Russia agrees not to use its planes to bomb Ukrainian cities Ukraine will agree not to bomb cities in Russia.

DP and this is my biggest concern - I don’t think there will be nuclear anything but I don’t want civilians to die on either side.
I know I am talking like a layperson not a politician but I don’t really care who rules both these countries or how they are divided up - I am sure people will figure out their lives under either president. I do care for no more lives lost though, no more cities bombed, and no more tears shed.

So I take it you'd happily live under president Putin as well, if it came to pass that he became your president by force?

Yes, I’d rather live under him (in fact life in Russia was pretty ok until 2022) than lose my relatives, my home and my life. That’s for sure!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the vital national interest in Ukraine, if any?

My understanding it’s just generally preventing Russia from becoming too strong and dangerous, and keeping the overall world order where you can’t just come in and harass any country you want. Of course it’s not always being enforced but in the key regions which otherwise may become adversaries for the US it is enforced.

LOL no, you're so silly to say that. But it's telling that you mention the U.S. adversaries, as if the key goal of the "overall world order" is that the U.S. must not have any adversaries.

Of course the “just and democratic” world order is mostly for show; the real goal is to stay the most powerful country, supporting friendly regimes and destroying the competitors
It’s just what all foreign policy is about, just not everyone is powerful enough to do it

Anonymous wrote:So where are these F-16s going to be based? That's the real question. If they are based in Ukraine, then they won't matter much. If based in Poland, this is a huge deal.

How so?

Anonymous wrote:All the lies- now the F16 is “just for air defense.”

The F16 is a fighter-bomber. The Israelis used them for Operation Babylon to bomb an Iraqi nuclear reactor in the early 80’s.

Once you hand them over to Zelensky, you’ll have no way to stop them from bombing missions into Russia.

I am the PP who asked the question of capabilities and I thank you for your response.
I do not for a second believe in self restrain of Ukrainians when it comes to bombing Russia in retaliation (they will present it as necessary for victory). I can’t quite blame them for it, but let’s face the truth.
They do have weapons they could use for that already - their self restraint comes from wanting to get more from their partners - but once they feel there will be no more help or it’s greatly reduced - there is no reason for them to hold back any more

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the vital national interest in Ukraine, if any?

My understanding it’s just generally preventing Russia from becoming too strong and dangerous, and keeping the overall world order where you can’t just come in and harass any country you want. Of course it’s not always being enforced but in the key regions which otherwise may become adversaries for the US it is enforced.

Hasn’t the war showed that Russia is not so strong, and that Russia would be be capable of invading nato territory?

I think they want to be extra sure, and also there is an element of PR where a country can’t be allowed to blatantly disregard international laws/the current democratic world order.

There is no such thing.

Yes there is. It’s how the west (US, EU, Australia, et al) perceive justice and democracy. It’s how they decide which side to support, who the bad guy is, etc.

Nuking American Cities. Some upsides??

Absolutely incomprehensible opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to risk nuclear war for the “Donbas.”

Time to end this war.

If we get nuked, then our descendants can build nice cities like Hiroshima

Sorry but Hiroshima is nicer and safer than any American city

Are you suggesting it would benefit the cities to be nuked?

I’m saying it’s not all downsides

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the vital national interest in Ukraine, if any?

Why is Biden so interested in Ukraine…

Um, have you ever heard of the European Union? NATO perhaps??

Biden isn’t interested in Ukraine; America is interested in defeating our enemy: Russia. Let me repeat that:

RUSSIA IS OUR ENEMY

CHINA IS ALSO OUR ENEMY

Remove everything made by "our enemy" from your house and your person, and see what's left on you.

The U.S. doesn't like it when other countries become economically powerful. They see it as a direct threat because only America is allowed to be powerful.

That's why you have stupid nonsense like the U.S. ambassador in China saying "we're an uncontested leader in this region". You are? Where did you go to diplomacy school?

America’s major mistake over the past few decades was to treat China like “a trading partner.”

China is our enemy; not our trading partner.

So where are these F-16s going to be based? That's the real question. If they are based in Ukraine, then they won't matter much. If based in Poland, this is a huge deal.

Anonymous wrote:The bit about making China an enemy is one of the several Soviet propaganda 'subversion' themes that the Russian Government seeded with the MAGA crowd. Not sure if you remember the book he wrote when Yuri Bezmenov defected, but it's basically the propaganda playbook that's been followed by Russia these past few years.

The book is prophetic regarding how the Republican Party and other "elite" were subverted. It's necessary reading when fighting these Russian trolls who post here.

Ffs- everything you don’t like is Russian propaganda, just like the laptop. It’s a meaningless charge, and you make it because we don’t have vital interests in the Donbas.

Anonymous wrote:It has the potential to kick off the apocalypse. Nuclear strikes are the apocalypse. Where are the serious politicians who can put a leash on the "geopolitical pros" beholden to the defense sector? Who can back us away from war?

Ukraine's territorial integrity is not worth the risk of nuclear war. End stop.

Again, quoting Bezmenov: "what matters is the targeting of essential structural elements of a nation: economy, foreign relations, and defense systems. Basically, the subverter (Russia) would look to destabilize every one of those areas in the United States, considerably weakening it."

The Russians will play both sides of the fence to polarize the conversation by going too far in either direction.

Moderation is the key.