Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

Yes but depending on your industry you may have to move to get those jobs and that means constant frictional costs with housing and no stability for your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”

This is no longer true. Staying in a job for a long time is a sure way to stagnate and is a vestige of times when there were pensions etc that accrued with time. People now often view a person with too long a tenure at one place as not a go-getter, too rigid, or not good enough to have alternate options. If you're not in a workplace that offers frequent significant promotion opportunities so you have a regularly changing title, you really do need to regularly quit and move. It kind of sucks because sometimes you like your workplace, but it's the new reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”

I've worked for three companies in the past eight years, which means my average tenure has been around 2 years and 7 months at each company. That's perfectly respectable and the reason why I've left has been due to money; long commutes; and during the pandemic, a period where a bunch of people quit due to burnout and a toxic culture. I'm fortunate that many hiring mangers look at my resume and see an ambitious person who makes pragmatic decisions like "I'm moving and don't want to commute for four hours every day, so it's time to look for a new job" or "Everyone around me is quitting and I've had three bosses in six months...maybe it's time for me to move on too" or "The person under me was let go due to a layoff and I've been doing two jobs for over a year and there is no end in site...maybe it's time I see what else is out there because I'm feeling burned out". I would encourage everyone who feels underpaid, undervalued, or burned out by a long commute or a toxic culture to look for another job. I would be making $150-200K less if I had stayed at my old companies and that would not have benefitted me or my family. The entire point of my post was that the OP should also be a go getter and ask for promotions and/or look for higher paying jobs. I've experienced zero judgement when job searching and there is no reason why anyone should feel stuck.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.

I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.

Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.

a sole breadwinner of $350k can still afford decent private schools in many smaller markets, especially in the south. The best private schools (these are the HS rates, all cheaper in lower grades) in Richmond top out at $30k/yr. In Atlanta, $36k. Charlotte $29k.

Not sure about the others but if you do move to Richmond & want to send your kids to St. Cs, be aware that it is a VERY insular social scene. Money isn’t sufficient to be accepted.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

75-100k for childcare?! When we did this we had an au pair and part time preschool. It was way less than that even counting pre-tax.

NP but this is unfortunately easily doable if you opt for expensive but not outrageous options. our last year for 4 and 1 yo: 65k+ nanny salary and nanny taxes. 16K morning pre-K for older DC during school year, 4K morning summer camp for older DC.

Sure, but most people don’t need 55hrs a week of childcare. Our peak Weald an Aupair which cost us all in 30k and part time preschool through a local church for about $600/mo. We threw in a few summer camps for another 5k.

Spending what you describe is bananas. Not all high earning dual income families need outrageously long childcare hours.

Right, but you have described 40k in annual childcare expenses, then add commuting, outsourcing household work etc and you are probably still spending more than half of one take home salary on that stuff (if you’re both in the 300s).

GMAFB. Commuting and outsourcing household work cost you more than $100k?

No, but adding childcare, commuting, and outsourcing does add up A LOT. And many people who work higher paying jobs need more childcare hours/time than the PP who is paying only $30k for an au pair. If you are paying a nanny a living wage, and above board, and need more than 40 hours of care/week, which is many working parents, bc at a minimum you are adding your commute time to that 40 hours you are working and the nanny has to be paid for that time too, so you’re paying that nanny 40 hours plus some overtime every single week. So you can easily spend $60k in a year on the childcare alone. I’m not trying to make a case that one should or shouldn’t work, but I think on this issue; both sides are obtuse. The working parents downplay the impact of loss of time with kids and the costs associated with having 2 working parents. The SAHM parents over estimate the costs of working, and overly weight the time they spend with their children, as if they are somehow superior for being with the kids more.

No one is “right”

Omg stop moving the goalposts. You keep getting called out on your fuzzy math and you keep changing the topic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”

Three job changes in eight years is not a red flag, grandpa. Especially if you have SME in an in-demand area.

Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

75-100k for childcare?! When we did this we had an au pair and part time preschool. It was way less than that even counting pre-tax.

NP but this is unfortunately easily doable if you opt for expensive but not outrageous options. our last year for 4 and 1 yo: 65k+ nanny salary and nanny taxes. 16K morning pre-K for older DC during school year, 4K morning summer camp for older DC.

Sure, but most people don’t need 55hrs a week of childcare. Our peak Weald an Aupair which cost us all in 30k and part time preschool through a local church for about $600/mo. We threw in a few summer camps for another 5k.

Spending what you describe is bananas. Not all high earning dual income families need outrageously long childcare hours.

Right, but you have described 40k in annual childcare expenses, then add commuting, outsourcing household work etc and you are probably still spending more than half of one take home salary on that stuff (if you’re both in the 300s).

GMAFB. Commuting and outsourcing household work cost you more than $100k?

No, but adding childcare, commuting, and outsourcing does add up A LOT. And many people who work higher paying jobs need more childcare hours/time than the PP who is paying only $30k for an au pair. If you are paying a nanny a living wage, and above board, and need more than 40 hours of care/week, which is many working parents, bc at a minimum you are adding your commute time to that 40 hours you are working and the nanny has to be paid for that time too, so you’re paying that nanny 40 hours plus some overtime every single week. So you can easily spend $60k in a year on the childcare alone. I’m not trying to make a case that one should or shouldn’t work, but I think on this issue; both sides are obtuse. The working parents downplay the impact of loss of time with kids and the costs associated with having 2 working parents. The SAHM parents over estimate the costs of working, and overly weight the time they spend with their children, as if they are somehow superior for being with the kids more.

No one is “right”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.

I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.

Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.

a sole breadwinner of $350k can still afford decent private schools in many smaller markets, especially in the south. The best private schools (these are the HS rates, all cheaper in lower grades) in Richmond top out at $30k/yr. In Atlanta, $36k. Charlotte $29k.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

75-100k for childcare?! When we did this we had an au pair and part time preschool. It was way less than that even counting pre-tax.

NP but this is unfortunately easily doable if you opt for expensive but not outrageous options. our last year for 4 and 1 yo: 65k+ nanny salary and nanny taxes. 16K morning pre-K for older DC during school year, 4K morning summer camp for older DC.

Sure, but most people don’t need 55hrs a week of childcare. Our peak Weald an Aupair which cost us all in 30k and part time preschool through a local church for about $600/mo. We threw in a few summer camps for another 5k.

Spending what you describe is bananas. Not all high earning dual income families need outrageously long childcare hours.

Right, but you have described 40k in annual childcare expenses, then add commuting, outsourcing household work etc and you are probably still spending more than half of one take home salary on that stuff (if you’re both in the 300s).

GMAFB. Commuting and outsourcing household work cost you more than $100k?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

75-100k for childcare?! When we did this we had an au pair and part time preschool. It was way less than that even counting pre-tax.

NP but this is unfortunately easily doable if you opt for expensive but not outrageous options. our last year for 4 and 1 yo: 65k+ nanny salary and nanny taxes. 16K morning pre-K for older DC during school year, 4K morning summer camp for older DC.

Sure, but most people don’t need 55hrs a week of childcare. Our peak Weald an Aupair which cost us all in 30k and part time preschool through a local church for about $600/mo. We threw in a few summer camps for another 5k.

Spending what you describe is bananas. Not all high earning dual income families need outrageously long childcare hours.

Right, but you have described 40k in annual childcare expenses, then add commuting, outsourcing household work etc and you are probably still spending more than half of one take home salary on that stuff (if you’re both in the 300s).

I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.

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Anonymous wrote:This was us double biglaw. It was an effing grind. And with no default parent or primary breadwinner/primary house manager division, everything was just a constant shtshow. Constantly taking care of things late or not at all, late fees, stress.

Hopefully your spouse is taking other stress off your plate.

THIS^^^
Is exactly why when we had kids I decided I wanted to stay home for a bit and continued it forever. Spouse travelled for work and worked long hours. They were moving much faster up the management chain (I was an engineer and had no desire to be management so was never going to make as much, but still was making 6 figures at 28 over 25 years ago). We felt if we were going to have kids it was important for them to have a parent figure around providing them a happy environment, not just nannies and parents coming home after they go to bed, or nannies for the week because we were both traveling.

So we agreed that would take the stress off my spouse as well. He was free to say yes to anything at work, without worrying about the kids or his responsibilities at home. As long as both agree, it can be a great situation.
Me---I'm thrilled I was able to be a SAHP for my kids. DOn't regret it at all (and I have 2 BS degrees from T10 and a MS from a T20--highly educated and had a career that was advancing well when I stopped). Now I don't need to go back and will just enjoy traveling with my spouse now for their work trips as we are empty nesters.

How many kids?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.

You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.

I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.

And I think you’re right. I quit my biglaw counsel job and our finances are basically exactly the same as before. After income taxes, convenience taxes, childcare, commuting costs, etc, we are almost exactly where we started.

Not a “numerically-challenged SAHM.” This is just our reality.

You are numerically-challenged because you don’t realize that expensive childcare is short-term expense (unless you keep popping out brats every 5 years to justify your existence) whereas retirement and other savings compound in the long-term.

Also, if your entire salary was eaten up by the things you mentioned, either you were paid crap, or you budgeted like crap.

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds stupid but it’s depressing to think that I could have married someone making my salary and we’d have a 700k HHI. On 350k there are so many nice houses out of reach that would be affordable on two of my incomes.

You are what’s wrong with the world.