Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone want to live in Florida, is beyond me. I'd rather live in about 48 other states.

You've obviously never been to North Dakota, Mississippi or Nebraska.

North Dakota is beautiful. Nebraska can be fine. Agree with you on Mississippi. But Florida is still a swampy sinkhole hellhole. Hard pass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:South Tampa is quite lovely. Beautiful homes, walkable, good schools. It has always been one of the pricier areas in the metro but since the pandemic has really just exploded in price. Unless you want a complete gut job, you would need to spend an absolute minimum of $750k, but more realistically in the $1 mil+ range, to get one of those "cute" houses.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2605-W-Sunset-Dr-Tampa-FL-33629/45050491_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/575-Bosphorous-Ave-Tampa-FL-33606/45111788_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3004-W-Chapin-Ave-Tampa-FL-33611/45061300_zpid/

"Cute" houses in the $500k price range are very rarely going to be in nice areas. That's just how Florida is- most of the nicer areas with good schools, safety, family friendliness etc. tend to be newer, master-planned community, suburban sprawl type neighborhoods. Most of the older, non-suburban sprawl areas tend to have really crappy schools and just aren't nice. (Think: Florida man.) The areas that are older/walkable/"cute" AND nice (South Tampa, Winter Park, Coral Gables, parts of Sarasota off the top of my head) are few and far in between and as such are in VERY high demand and these days pretty much equivalent in price to the nice parts of the DMV.

Davis Island? Bayshore? Those have always been expensive. That’s like tossing out Kalamora townhouse as the typical DC home.

There were always rich enclaves in FL, because it's a vacation destination.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m from Miami, born and raised. Lived in California for 6 years, came back to FL and was there for a grand total of 5 months. I’m now in DC. It’s gotten so incredibly expensive to rent in south Florida (equal to LA prices) and the wages do not match the cost of living. Mostly because a lot of the population is not educated and the main industry in Florida is tourism, which is not high paying but increases the demand for housing, leaving locals unable to afford housing.

Florida is basically a huge, overblown suburb. If you’re from California, the entire state of Florida is exactly like the Inland Empire. Think Riverside, San Bernardino, Fontana, Marietta, Rancho etc. It is hugely suburban and overpopulated. Traffic jams in the suburbs, crowds everywhere, big box stores everywhere, without the benefit of actually living close to a big city. It’s overpopulated and does not have the infrastructure to support it.

Sounds just like MoCo and Fairfax to me.

I used to live in LA, and DC metro sometimes reminds me of LA with its interconnected "villages" and dispersed town centers, busy highways and general car dependency outside of the core of DC or more developed towns like Arlington/Rosslyn/Alexandria. There are also similarities in culture.. It's typical affluent suburbia.

South FL has Miami and we have DC.. both are cities and provide good enough urban amenities and culture, interesting architecture, and nature (although Miami has great beaches, which is hard to beat). I still think DC had more big city amenities than Miami and is a lot less car dependent. While I love Miami, I cannot help but perceive it as a vacation destination more so, than a place where I would live permanently. We visited more residential parts like Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, etc, and found it not that much more enticing or interesting as any other nice suburb of any other major city, except warmer weather and proximity to beaches. There are cute strips of shopping/dining, but nothing you cannot find anywhere else. I don't see Coconut Grove being anything better than Bethesda, if housing price is the same, there is little advantage to move there, unless you love hot weather and driving to the beach on the weekend.

Anonymous wrote:South Tampa is quite lovely. Beautiful homes, walkable, good schools. It has always been one of the pricier areas in the metro but since the pandemic has really just exploded in price. Unless you want a complete gut job, you would need to spend an absolute minimum of $750k, but more realistically in the $1 mil+ range, to get one of those "cute" houses.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2605-W-Sunset-Dr-Tampa-FL-33629/45050491_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/575-Bosphorous-Ave-Tampa-FL-33606/45111788_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3004-W-Chapin-Ave-Tampa-FL-33611/45061300_zpid/

"Cute" houses in the $500k price range are very rarely going to be in nice areas. That's just how Florida is- most of the nicer areas with good schools, safety, family friendliness etc. tend to be newer, master-planned community, suburban sprawl type neighborhoods. Most of the older, non-suburban sprawl areas tend to have really crappy schools and just aren't nice. (Think: Florida man.) The areas that are older/walkable/"cute" AND nice (South Tampa, Winter Park, Coral Gables, parts of Sarasota off the top of my head) are few and far in between and as such are in VERY high demand and these days pretty much equivalent in price to the nice parts of the DMV.

Davis Island? Bayshore? Those have always been expensive. That’s like tossing out Kalamora townhouse as the typical DC home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida is doomed. Just no.

Like it or not, FL is the future, despite the hideous politics and climate issues.

Just look at population/economic trends. Which states are experiencing population growth? Which are losing population? Where's new manufacturing going? (Hint, it's not the NE or Rust Belt).

We're in the midst of an historical transition, perhaps the largest we've seen since the post-WWII suburbanization.

Places like FL and TX are "winning" and places like NYC, Chicago are "losing".

Neither climate nor politics are likely to change that anytime soon.

THIS. A lot of people on this forum bash Florida and I wonder if they have any clue about the massive migration, including of wealth, that is going on in this country.

they don't want to accept the fact that people are leaving their shitty states

Wealth was always in FL, rich have multiple homes, they don't "relocate". FL had some of the most expensive compounds in the country where home prices start at 10 mil, and there are many of them on both FL coasts. So what? Movement of working people who are upwardly mobile is what matters, not obscenely rich people buying their 4th vacation homes in some enclave conveniently located near nicer nature and luxury shopping and supply of household staff employees that tend to be not upwardly mobile.

FL experienced migration of those who come there to settle down and work and have higher incomes, this is what drove prices up. It happened during the pandemic because Blue metro areas became unbearable to live in, so people who wanted sense of normalcy and had flexibility moved, and also saved some on cost of housing, COL, etc. But it no longer makes sense if prices are up, it's not longer a "grass is greener" pasture for those seeking lower COL. Political migration will probably continue, but economic migration of upwardly mobile will slow down when prices hit a threshold where staying in your own high COL area would be the same.

Also a lot of well to do East Coasters got second homes in FL to escape when they could work from home and when rates were obscenely low and prices still affordable. Many had to return back to their primary residences when their employers wanted them back to the office or when they simply got bored, missed their old surroundings, families, friends. You would think with departure of those using FL as tax shelter and second home would result in more homes on the market and will drive prices down, but it didn't. People who bought in 2020 with low rates and prices have now doubled their money, have low mtg and aren't selling even if not living there full time. So, inventory continues to be tight and prices high.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida is doomed. Just no.

Like it or not, FL is the future, despite the hideous politics and climate issues.

Just look at population/economic trends. Which states are experiencing population growth? Which are losing population? Where's new manufacturing going? (Hint, it's not the NE or Rust Belt).

We're in the midst of an historical transition, perhaps the largest we've seen since the post-WWII suburbanization.

Places like FL and TX are "winning" and places like NYC, Chicago are "losing".

Neither climate nor politics are likely to change that anytime soon.

THIS. A lot of people on this forum bash Florida and I wonder if they have any clue about the massive migration, including of wealth, that is going on in this country.

they don't want to accept the fact that people are leaving their shitty states

Wealth was always in FL, rich have multiple homes, they don't "relocate". FL had some of the most expensive compounds in the country where home prices start at 10 mil, and there are many of them on both FL coasts. So what? Movement of working people who are upwardly mobile is what matters, not obscenely rich people buying their 4th vacation homes in some enclave conveniently located near nicer nature and luxury shopping and supply of household staff employees that tend to be not upwardly mobile.

FL experienced migration of those who come there to settle down and work and have higher incomes, this is what drove prices up. It happened during the pandemic because Blue metro areas became unbearable to live in, so people who wanted sense of normalcy and had flexibility moved, and also saved some on cost of housing, COL, etc. But it no longer makes sense if prices are up, it's not longer a "grass is greener" pasture for those seeking lower COL. Political migration will probably continue, but economic migration of upwardly mobile will slow down when prices hit a threshold where staying in your own high COL area would be the same.

The majority of people moving to Florida are doing so because they need to. I gladly pay 60k+ a year in taxes to MD/Moco. I can afford the pleasure of not needing to save that $60k to live near a bunch of three toothed Neanderthals.

I am hardly a raging liberal..I just hate stupid people.

Anonymous wrote:I’m from Miami, born and raised. Lived in California for 6 years, came back to FL and was there for a grand total of 5 months. I’m now in DC. It’s gotten so incredibly expensive to rent in south Florida (equal to LA prices) and the wages do not match the cost of living. Mostly because a lot of the population is not educated and the main industry in Florida is tourism, which is not high paying but increases the demand for housing, leaving locals unable to afford housing.

Florida is basically a huge, overblown suburb. If you’re from California, the entire state of Florida is exactly like the Inland Empire. Think Riverside, San Bernardino, Fontana, Marietta, Rancho etc. It is hugely suburban and overpopulated. Traffic jams in the suburbs, crowds everywhere, big box stores everywhere, without the benefit of actually living close to a big city. It’s overpopulated and does not have the infrastructure to support it.

Sounds just like MoCo and Fairfax to me.

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone want to live in Florida, is beyond me. I'd rather live in about 48 other states.

You've obviously never been to North Dakota, Mississippi or Nebraska.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5301-N-Central-Ave-Tampa-FL-33603/45092661_zpid/

Like, this house is "cute"...but it's in a very...erm...up and coming neighborhood I personally would not choose to raise my family in. The schools would be an absolute non-starter for me (and I'm a product of FL public schools and always roll my eyes at the "FL schools are universally awful!" comments...if that tells you anything). And it's within viewing distance of one of the busiest interstate stretches in the entire state. I can't imagine paying $650k for it (although I'm sure someone will).

I can get that whole list for $650K a 15-20 minute drive from downtown DC, why would I want it in Tampa?

Personally I’d rather be closer to Tampa than DC. Tampa is booming and there are more outdoor activities. There is a lot of crime and homelessness in DC.

I’m from Miami, born and raised. Lived in California for 6 years, came back to FL and was there for a grand total of 5 months. I’m now in DC. It’s gotten so incredibly expensive to rent in south Florida (equal to LA prices) and the wages do not match the cost of living. Mostly because a lot of the population is not educated and the main industry in Florida is tourism, which is not high paying but increases the demand for housing, leaving locals unable to afford housing.

Florida is basically a huge, overblown suburb. If you’re from California, the entire state of Florida is exactly like the Inland Empire. Think Riverside, San Bernardino, Fontana, Marietta, Rancho etc. It is hugely suburban and overpopulated. Traffic jams in the suburbs, crowds everywhere, big box stores everywhere, without the benefit of actually living close to a big city. It’s overpopulated and does not have the infrastructure to support it.

Anonymous wrote:I live in a generic suburban home that has plenty of space, is easy to maintain, great neighborhood, great schools, amazing neighbors, but zero character. I can't afford the entry fee to an analogous neighborhood with charm around here. So I get it.

I visited Mt Lebanon in Pittsburgh a few weeks ago and I fell in love with a different house on every street. Nothing over 500k. Ditto my cousin's neighborhood in FL. She downsized to be near the beach and lives in a mid-century home with her husband and three kids. Every corner looks like something out of Domino or Remodelista. I know these are not perfect areas and I do love my house, but there is a je ne sais quoi about these older neighborhoods that I will always yearn for and never be able to replicate around here.

I am appalled by the cookie cutter houses going up rather than 'saving'/remodeling the older houses with charm.

Why would anyone want to live in Florida, is beyond me. I'd rather live in about 48 other states.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5301-N-Central-Ave-Tampa-FL-33603/45092661_zpid/

Like, this house is "cute"...but it's in a very...erm...up and coming neighborhood I personally would not choose to raise my family in. The schools would be an absolute non-starter for me (and I'm a product of FL public schools and always roll my eyes at the "FL schools are universally awful!" comments...if that tells you anything). And it's within viewing distance of one of the busiest interstate stretches in the entire state. I can't imagine paying $650k for it (although I'm sure someone will).

I can get that whole list for $650K a 15-20 minute drive from downtown DC, why would I want it in Tampa?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida is doomed. Just no.

Like it or not, FL is the future, despite the hideous politics and climate issues.

Just look at population/economic trends. Which states are experiencing population growth? Which are losing population? Where's new manufacturing going? (Hint, it's not the NE or Rust Belt).

We're in the midst of an historical transition, perhaps the largest we've seen since the post-WWII suburbanization.

Places like FL and TX are "winning" and places like NYC, Chicago are "losing".

Neither climate nor politics are likely to change that anytime soon.

THIS. A lot of people on this forum bash Florida and I wonder if they have any clue about the massive migration, including of wealth, that is going on in this country.

How much of that migration and "wealth" are retirees who will be a massive net negative on the economy?

If I retire to Florida and bring my $2MM retirement portfolio I'm bringing a ton of "wealth" to FL on paper, but how much of that will be sucked up by out-of-state based corporate "senior living communities?" How much of that will sit in a brokerage account doing nothing until I die and my liberal kids who would never willingly set foot in the state get it all?

No, Florida (and Texas) is one of the top states millennials are moving to.

+1 Sorry to interrupt the pp's liberal talking points, but it's not just retirees moving to FL.

No one thinks stupid is confined to the old. People of all ages can be short-sighted or weirdo conservatives.

There are no liberals anywhere who are crying over people moving to FL or Texas. Go ahead. Let's confine the crazy. Cluster together down in your sweltering summers, imminent flooding and God-awful politics. Buh-bye.