I think there is a generation of women who really see themselves in her lyrics, and that is why she’s so popular. She also loves connecting with her fans in an intimate way (the “eggs” she leaves in her video and on social media, etc). She’s derided because she makes music for and about being a young woman. I would agree she’s not a particularly talented singer, but she is an incredible performer. I mean, three hour stadium shows every weekend for six months is nothing to turn your nose up at.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I have no idea what Katy Perry is doing in your post -- she's a terrible songwriter and has no abilities in other areas. I guess she puts on a fun show, which isn't nothing.

The average person would group them together as pop stars who sing about similar subjects and put on similar shows. I actually have more fondness for Katy Perry because her hits are much catchier and I like that she’s less perfect/pretentious. Long live Left Shark.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I have no idea what Katy Perry is doing in your post -- she's a terrible songwriter and has no abilities in other areas. I guess she puts on a fun show, which isn't nothing.

Anonymous wrote:I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

This might be true, but almost none of her songs are as catchy/memorable of most of Petty’s greatest hits. Like name ONE Taylor Swift song that people who are not specifically Taylor Swift fans know all the words to (I can think of any). And then think of American Girl, Free Falling, Wildflowers, Take the Money and Run, etc. etc. I was born in 1980, so kind of young for Tom Petty, and I know all those songs despite never owning an album. I own two Taylor Swift albums and have seen her live and I don’t think I know all the words to any of her songs.

People who think Taylor Swift is a musical genius usually just have limited exposure to other music. It’s like people who think Harry Potter are the best books of all time. They are fine, they have their place, they are popular for a reason. But if you think they are the pinnacle of literature, or even children’s literature, you simply are not well read. The same with Swift.

I cannot tell you one song that is memorable to me. I’ve heard her music but it’s in one ear and out of the other. No distinction at all.

I think she is - in the same vein as Tom Petty. If you don’t like her, too bad, because you will be hearing her songs in the background of American life for the rest of your life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she is a once-in-a-generation singer-songwriter talent. She is underrated because she is a woman and her fan base is young women. If she was a man, well, she’d be the man.

I think she is massively overrated and could never understand all the hype about her.

I agree 100%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

Her lyrics are 100 percent why she is so successful. I would say she’s the best lyricist of our time. Her early songs were like diary entries and young women connected with her through those songs. Much different than a singer who sings someone else’s words. She also embraced her fans through social media and never went through a bad girl phase like many other young stars.

"Like diary entries" is not a compliment to me, especially not when her writing style has not really matured over time. She's still writing these songs that sound like a teenage girl longing for her summer love. Which is fine! Nothing wrong with her music. But she is NOT the best lyricist of our time. At all. I can think of a dozen bands/artists who are doing more interesting, complex, and innovative things with their lyrics than Swift is. She's cranking out the same stuff that has made her money for the last 15 years, and good for her.

Her social media presence and public image as a good girl are irrelevant to a conversation as to whether or not she's "a Genius" -- as others have pointed out, she's clearly very good at marketing and branding herself. But that's really independent of her value as an artist.

Like diary entries was an attempt to explain why so many women connected with her early songs and stuck around. They were also in their teens and early 20s when Swift was, and of course Gen z is now at the right age to find her music.

Whether someone is a great songwriter is subjective, though Swift certainly has industry accolades. I think she has evolved but I can see how a casual listener would hear her songs as similar. She often releases her worst music as singles. What dozen band/individuals are you talking are you referring to?

This is a random list of artists I think are better lyricists than Taylor Swift who are working today:

Courtney Barnett
Sufjan Stevens
Kurt Vile
Little Simz
Father John Misty
Jason Isbell
Joanna Newsome
St. Vincent
Lana Del Ray
Vampire Weekend
Grizzly Bear
Dirty Projectors

Also, dead now, but John Prine was an ACTUAL genius and poet who worked for 50 years in the music business and collaborated with countless extraordinary musicians.

Sorry. Taylor Swift does not rank. She will have to dry her tears on her piles of cash and Grammys I guess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

Her lyrics are 100 percent why she is so successful. I would say she’s the best lyricist of our time. Her early songs were like diary entries and young women connected with her through those songs. Much different than a singer who sings someone else’s words. She also embraced her fans through social media and never went through a bad girl phase like many other young stars.

"Like diary entries" is not a compliment to me, especially not when her writing style has not really matured over time. She's still writing these songs that sound like a teenage girl longing for her summer love. Which is fine! Nothing wrong with her music. But she is NOT the best lyricist of our time. At all. I can think of a dozen bands/artists who are doing more interesting, complex, and innovative things with their lyrics than Swift is. She's cranking out the same stuff that has made her money for the last 15 years, and good for her.

Her social media presence and public image as a good girl are irrelevant to a conversation as to whether or not she's "a Genius" -- as others have pointed out, she's clearly very good at marketing and branding herself. But that's really independent of her value as an artist.

Like diary entries was an attempt to explain why so many women connected with her early songs and stuck around. They were also in their teens and early 20s when Swift was, and of course Gen z is now at the right age to find her music.

Whether someone is a great songwriter is subjective, though Swift certainly has industry accolades. I think she has evolved but I can see how a casual listener would hear her songs as similar. She often releases her worst music as singles. What dozen band/individuals are you talking are you referring to?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I would say the exact same thing about Beyonce.

No one is starting a thread about Beyoncé being a genius.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taylor Swift is a marketing genius and a good pop star

Lauryn Hill is a musical genius.

Ha, no.

Lauryn Hill hasn’t been relevant since the late 90s. You do know that it was 20 years ago, right?

So that’s the measure for genius? Relevancy and current popularity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

I would say the exact same thing about Beyonce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I really respect what she's done but I don't think she's a genius. I think a significant part of her success is her skill in marketing herself. It's also really unclear to me how much of the actual music she writes. I understand she writes pretty much all her lyrics, and she's a very good lyricist. But it's never been clear to me if she is composing much of this music herself, especially for her bigger hits, which tend to be more heavily produced.

Has it really gotten to the point where a singer who writes her own songs is considered a genius?
And who cares if she writes them? Her song are all mid.

I agree with you. There are songwriters who were geniuses, but Taylor Swift is not among them. As much as her fans make a big deal about her lyrics, it's not what has made her famous and successful -- it's her brand, the production around her, combined with music that doesn't provoke or innovate really at all. She has a nice voice and she does play her own instruments sometimes. But is she hugely different than, say, Katy Perry? More talented or innovative than Janelle Monae? Not really. There's nothing ground breaking about her.

Her lyrics are 100 percent why she is so successful. I would say she’s the best lyricist of our time. Her early songs were like diary entries and young women connected with her through those songs. Much different than a singer who sings someone else’s words. She also embraced her fans through social media and never went through a bad girl phase like many other young stars.

"Like diary entries" is not a compliment to me, especially not when her writing style has not really matured over time. She's still writing these songs that sound like a teenage girl longing for her summer love. Which is fine! Nothing wrong with her music. But she is NOT the best lyricist of our time. At all. I can think of a dozen bands/artists who are doing more interesting, complex, and innovative things with their lyrics than Swift is. She's cranking out the same stuff that has made her money for the last 15 years, and good for her.

Her social media presence and public image as a good girl are irrelevant to a conversation as to whether or not she's "a Genius" -- as others have pointed out, she's clearly very good at marketing and branding herself. But that's really independent of her value as an artist.

This. All of this.

She is not that talented.

No. Next question?