Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:42
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
? gee, why don't you tell the parents of those failing Baltimore city kids that they should become teachers instead. Do you think they'd be interested? After all, it is their kids who are reading at a basic ES level.
So that’s a no on joining up and showing them how it’s done then?
Thought so.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:41
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:It’s so precious how you think that holding failing kids back repeatedly (because yes, it would be repeatedly) is going to make them think “golly gee whillikers, jeepers, this is serious! I’d better buckle down, start coming to class and extra tutoring hours and doing my homework.”
Step out of your privileged bubble every once in a while.
It's stupid to think these kids who can't do math/read at grade level will be fine and not be a burden on society once they leave school. Some will turn to crime, and who knows.. you could be a victim of one of them.
How's that for precious?
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:39
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
It’s so precious how you think that holding failing kids back repeatedly (because yes, it would be repeatedly) is going to make them think “golly gee whillikers, jeepers, this is serious! I’d better buckle down, start coming to class and extra tutoring hours and doing my homework.”
Step out of your privileged bubble every once in a while.
Step out of your privileged bubble every once in a while.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:39
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
? gee, why don't you tell the parents of those failing Baltimore city kids that they should become teachers instead. Do you think they'd be interested? After all, it is their kids who are reading at a basic ES level.
Not pp, but you clearly don’t understand the issues at play here.
For one, I bet if you took a survey of the ages of parents of BCPS students, I am certain that you’d find the vast majority of them to be only 15-20 years older than their children. In other words, teen parents (mothers, since the dads are who knows where). The rest had their kids when they were 22-25 years old, is my guess. The parents have a high school diploma at most, FROM BCPS. That is all they know. They don’t know what they don’t know. Their kids are attending the same schools they did, and the attitude is, if it was good enough for my parents and I, it’s good enough for my kids. And the cycle continues.
I get the issue. But, to get out of poverty, you need an education, at least read and do math at an 8th grade level. Most of these kids are graduating with an ES level of math and reading.
And the school district leaders are just sweeping it under the rug and don't want to hear outsider ideas. Clearly, what they are doing isn't working, but they think they know best, and their "best" is a huge number of students graduating without being able to read or do math at an 8th grade level.
That is shameful. Why can't they take outside help? IMO, there's a lot of denialism and corruption there.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:36
Subject: Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If we retained all the kids who needed to, we’d dramatically increase costs. Those kids would take fourteen years to go through the system, instead of thirteen. We don’t have the money or space for that, but I wish we did.
More than that. There are many kids that don’t come, don’t care, won’t do the work, parents don’t help them at home. An extra year isn’t going to make a difference. They will still be far behind.
I feel it is ok if they don't finish HS. As long as they have been made to repeat grades in ES and MS, they will at least have an elementary or
middle school education and mastery of that content. They are fine to drop out of HS. At least with repeating grades (and being taught the content well in lower grades) they are literate.
I mean, you can “feel” that way, but without a high school diploma, no one will hire them, so enjoy your cripplingly massive tax hikes to pay for them.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:35
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Viewed through the lens of racial and socioeconomic justice, it would be immensely harmful to hold a student back, simply for an academic deficiency.
BS!
It's terrible for the kid to be uneducated for the rest of their lives.
Holding them back, just so they can drop out the day they turn 18, isn’t going to keep them from being “uneducated,” but please, do tell us more about just how little you know.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 19:33
Subject: Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel like these days so few kids know the material that it wouldn't even be shameful to have to repeat a grade. What good does it do to send kids up to the next grade when they are far, far behind grade level? Isn't it discouraging to them to be in classes where they can't do any of the work?
So many kids can’t meet grade level proficiencies and schools don’t have the staff or infrastructure to have large percentages of students repeating. It just isn’t possible. School can’t parent your kids, feed them, provide emotional/psychological therapy AND teach them. Parents can’t put in zero work at home and expect school to take care of everything...and that is where we are.
+1,000
Anonymous
04/18/2023 18:59
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
I would probably have my kids be truant too if I lived in Baltimore & couldn’t afford to move. Safer & probably not much learning going on in the schools anyway. I’m surprised there’s nothing like Boston’s METCO there.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 18:29
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
You also have to understand that most kids attending Baltimore City schools don’t know what’s possible in terms of careers. The only college-educated individuals they encounter growing up are their teachers, and the doctors & dentists they visit a few times. They aren’t meeting engineers, programmers etc. They don’t see on a regular basis what an education could get for them.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:44
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
? gee, why don't you tell the parents of those failing Baltimore city kids that they should become teachers instead. Do you think they'd be interested? After all, it is their kids who are reading at a basic ES level.
Not pp, but you clearly don’t understand the issues at play here.
For one, I bet if you took a survey of the ages of parents of BCPS students, I am certain that you’d find the vast majority of them to be only 15-20 years older than their children. In other words, teen parents (mothers, since the dads are who knows where). The rest had their kids when they were 22-25 years old, is my guess. The parents have a high school diploma at most, FROM BCPS. That is all they know. They don’t know what they don’t know. Their kids are attending the same schools they did, and the attitude is, if it was good enough for my parents and I, it’s good enough for my kids. And the cycle continues.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:38
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
According to some Baltimore city education advocates, BCPS CEO isn't interested in help and think they have the situation under control.
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/community-responds-after-baltimore-schools-ignores-harvard-mathematicians-offer-to-help
But Baltimore City Schools says it’s confident their own steps to improve math scores will be enough.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:35
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
? gee, why don't you tell the parents of those failing Baltimore city kids that they should become teachers instead. Do you think they'd be interested? After all, it is their kids who are reading at a basic ES level.
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:34
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
Of course they do.
Where do they teach actual "reading", "writing" and math.
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/edison/programs
This is a vocational school, basically. They have to read and do simple math in the vocational school, but to OP's post, if they get a 50% even if they cannot read the material or do basic calculation or get a 50% on the vocation assignments even as they are actually failing it, how is this helping them in the long run? It's keeping them dumb, and then releasing them to the public like that.
Let's say they get that certification at Edison, but they can't actually read or do math beyond an ES level. How employable do you think these kids are?
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:33
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There is a worry that having kids repeat a grade increases the chance they will drop out before they graduate
why not just have the HS kid go to continuing education at community college? I think that's what they did back in my day, in the 80s.
A kid who graduates only reading at an ES level and can barely do math serves no one, least of all the kid.
Kids do take part in that. You’re just not aware of it. See Edison HS in MCPS.
I'm well aware of Edison HS as we get emails about it from our HS, but that's not the same. Those are vocational schools, and they don't teach reading and math.
Here's a story of what happens when schools just pass a student along:
https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-student-graduates-without-learning-read-patterson-high-school-project-baltimore-debora-prestileo
https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/77-tested-at-baltimore-high-school-read-at-elementary-level-71-at-kindergarten
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/about-3-test-at-grade-level-in-math-and-reading-at-one-baltimore-high-school
Baltimore city is a high poverty area. Passing these kids is not helping them get out of poverty.
You seem to think you’re an expert on urban education. Baltimore City Public Schools desperately needs certified teachers. Interested?
Anonymous
04/18/2023 16:30
Subject: Re:Arguments in favor of giving kids passing grades even when they don't know the material?
You can’t make an 18 year old go to school. You’d have difficulty getting a judge to chase down 17 year olds to attend, too.