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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

The person mentioned SE, DC meant low income Blacks.
If you are, you get bonus points in college admissions

It's both hilarious and very sad that a thread that started off wishing for a kinder, gentler approach has devolved into people sniping at each other. Sheesh!

People need to acknowledge that some of the pressure to attend name-brand schools comes from a child's peers. As early as 6th grade my kid heard other kids talking about going to top schools, or telling everyone they were a shoo-in at Princeton because double legacy. In mixed grade classes at his HS, he hears juniors talking about applying to and getting into Yale, other Ivies and T20. Everyone is watching the IG accounts with acceptances and sweatshirts. To a kid, these schools appear to look within reach, even if you talk to them about legacy, athletic recruit, full pay, etc.

It's really difficult as a parent to pull your kid back when they are immersed in this culture.

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

We are from SE, DC. And I don't mean Capitol Hill, we are east of the river. What is this bump up and advantage? I'm out of the loop.

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

I feel like this is always said disingenuously. You want other people to believe this so they aren't in your way, but don't practice what you preach.

Not PP, but I truly believe this. I'm smart enough to know from real life that I know lots of smart successful people , and only a few of them went to an elite school. Most of the executives I know did not, most of them are millionaires. They are smart motivated and got to that point thru hard work, just like 99.999% of people. In fact, most didn't even go to T30-60 schools, most went to 100+ in the rankings or unknown ones to many. Heck I even know 2 EVP of sales who are millionaires and did not even graduate college. In fact, didn't even know they didn't have a college degree until recently, because it doesn't matter. They are highly successful (known both for over 20 years). One has been a CEO of a startup as well. I didn't know because nobody cares or talks about where you went to school. Other than when your kids are applying to college or its march madness or fall college football, it's just not something normal people discuss ad nauseum

I find it somewhat humorous that everyone argues over Top 20 vs whatever school...but then when you mention the possibility of no college at all, then both parties align to rip your head off.

Maybe a shock to some, but there are professional jobs (like sales above) but also a bunch in Tech where they only care what you can do and don't care why or how you know to do what you do (i.e., they literally don't care if you graduate from college, go and drop out or don't go at all).

This board is full of toxic tiger moms pushing their kids into finance and CS. And kids from college confidential trolling. It’s a train wreck of toxicity and makes me hate our shallow, vapid, greedy, materialistic culture.

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Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, with the passage of time parents realize they made mistakes. I was obsessed with the test scores at my kids’ public elementary school and my school obsession continued all the way through college admissions. Now that it’s all behind me, it’s very obvious that how I acted was unhealthy and unnecessary - and that I risked serious damage to my relationship with my kids for no reason whatsoever. Fortunately, my kids are the forgiving type and that hasn’t actually happened.

What you all will discover soon enough is that there is no correlation between the rank of your kid’s college and their professional success or personal happiness. Five, ten, fifteen years out of college, when I line up all of my kids and all of their friends first by college rank and then by professional/personal success each line is dramatically different. It really, truly doesn’t matter. But there’s no convincing many parents who are currently in the process of this fact. I understand that, because I’ve been there.

This should be obvious to people even just looking at their own families and peers they went to school with, but people lose their minds a bit with fear when it comes to their kids.

Like doesn't everyone know someone from high school or college who took an unconventional route and wound up incredibly fulfilled and successful even though they did want the college admissions olympics or have a really impressive resume at 22? I know a bunch of people like this. They were smart people who didn't make bad choices (not talking about drop outs or people who developed drug problems or something) but they didn't succumb to pressure to achieve in a very specific, prescribed way in HS and college or grad school and instead figured out what they really wanted to do, and what would be fulfilling to them, and then found ways to accomplish that goal in a targeted, thoughtful way. Their plan was never "Havard then top law or business school then I'm rich" which it turns out is a really good plan if you want to be miserable and unfulfilled in life.

DP.. it's about statistics and chances, and also, the area. People around the DC area are much more success and image conscious than the majority of the country.

The majority of people who go to low ranked universities don't do *as well* as those who went to a higher ranked university.

And before you flame me, I went to a low ranked, no name state u but did manage to get a good paying job several years out of college. But, I also know that I am somewhat of an outlier in my success at that low ranked u, and some of my success was timing.

HOWEVER, I think times have changed since the 80s, and yes, your kid can have a good life without going to a T50.

I think some parents just want to hedge their bets. But, I do agree, it's not worth the mental turmoil and stress on a kid, and your relationship with them.

I have a very high stats kid in a magnet program, and I have walked that fine line between being too pushy and letting them decide. DC has told me that in some ways, they wished that I had pushed them more. But, of course, if I had, they could've easily resented it.

It's a no win situation, but that's parenting for you.

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

It's this. They're frustrated. And rightfully so.
We're entering this process soon and I'm already over it. Not b/c I care where DC goes -great student but we are opting out of the AP rat race and not gunning for Ivies- but b/c the process seems fundamentally flawed in a lot of ways.

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

Maybe I view college as something that we've had to heavily save for over the past two decades. College will be second to our house as far as major purchases go, it will cost more than every vehicle we've ever owned combined. It may not be the destination, but we do very much care about it.

Again, this is a choice you are making. College doesn't have to cost $80,000 per year. Now, of course, if you are going to spend that much, your child should absolutely work hard and make the most of it. But there are other options out there.

This is also part of the problem. You have saved money for it so you feel entitled to it. But that isn't how college admissions works.

Why do you assume 80k a year with that level of savings? Not everyone is rich. Some people have to save like that to afford instate flagships

Well, if they're saving to afford in-state school, then they likely aren't gunning for T20s and putting all that pressure on their kids. In-state schools are achievable for almost all kids. This was kind of what we told DC and she had her sights set on our in-state flagships and its honors college for all of HS and she had a pretty relaxed senior year.

In state flagship is a ton of pressure. In FCPS, you need to graduate near the top of you class to have a chance

Then they go to JMU. Big deal.

JMU sucks. They don't want.
You don't decide for other people.

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

Maybe I view college as something that we've had to heavily save for over the past two decades. College will be second to our house as far as major purchases go, it will cost more than every vehicle we've ever owned combined. It may not be the destination, but we do very much care about it.

Again, this is a choice you are making. College doesn't have to cost $80,000 per year. Now, of course, if you are going to spend that much, your child should absolutely work hard and make the most of it. But there are other options out there.

This is also part of the problem. You have saved money for it so you feel entitled to it. But that isn't how college admissions works.

Why do you assume 80k a year with that level of savings? Not everyone is rich. Some people have to save like that to afford instate flagships

Well, if they're saving to afford in-state school, then they likely aren't gunning for T20s and putting all that pressure on their kids. In-state schools are achievable for almost all kids. This was kind of what we told DC and she had her sights set on our in-state flagships and its honors college for all of HS and she had a pretty relaxed senior year.

In state flagship is a ton of pressure. In FCPS, you need to graduate near the top of you class to have a chance

Then they go to JMU. Big deal.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

Maybe I view college as something that we've had to heavily save for over the past two decades. College will be second to our house as far as major purchases go, it will cost more than every vehicle we've ever owned combined. It may not be the destination, but we do very much care about it.

Again, this is a choice you are making. College doesn't have to cost $80,000 per year. Now, of course, if you are going to spend that much, your child should absolutely work hard and make the most of it. But there are other options out there.

This is also part of the problem. You have saved money for it so you feel entitled to it. But that isn't how college admissions works.

Why do you assume 80k a year with that level of savings? Not everyone is rich. Some people have to save like that to afford instate flagships

Well, if they're saving to afford in-state school, then they likely aren't gunning for T20s and putting all that pressure on their kids. In-state schools are achievable for almost all kids. This was kind of what we told DC and she had her sights set on our in-state flagships and its honors college for all of HS and she had a pretty relaxed senior year.

In state flagship is a ton of pressure. In FCPS, you need to graduate near the top of you class to have a chance

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

You’re on the good side of this system, trust me.

+1

If you approach college admissions like OP described, you will be fine. There are literally hundreds of good colleges out there. Find the ones that will work for your kid and let them get an education. Your kid will do well without that Harvard degree, majority of people don't have one and do well.

So agree with this!! And here's a comforting article worth reading: https://raisingamericans.substack.com/p/deferred-or-rejected-by-a-dream-school - Deferred or Rejected by a Dream School? 10 Great Ways to Comfort Your Child and Help Them Move On

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Anonymous wrote:You seem very sure that you're doing it much better than everyone else, OP.

I don't know anyone in my circle how does what you claim we all do.

Perhaps you could stretch to understand that we are all complex creatures who can be rational and tolerant most of the time, but who occasionally need to vent our disappointments and resentments on an anonymous online forum. This is why this forum gets heated.

But you know better, of course.

Where are you from? That you don't know ANYONE who functions like this. It's like this in most highly educated areas of the country. For some reasons most people think attending T20 school is the only way to be successful in life. Kids plan and mold their HS "career" just in hopes of getting into the best college.

We personally don't fall 100% in this trap. We encourage our kids to take rigorous courses, but I let our 1500 3.99UW GPA skip APUSH/APEuro/APEng for their sanity and just stick to AP STEM courses. Also let them drop FL after level 3, when Spanish IV didn't fit into schedule with band and AP was taught by an abysmal teacher (had them for SP2 and were not going to deal with that crap again). But most around us were taking 5-6 APs each year just because "it's needed for college"---hint it's not. Sure my kid did not get into their T20 choice, but they had a much happier HS 4 years being allowed to enjoy life. They are at a T30-40 and extremely happy and trust me, plenty challenged. Despite having stats that put them at the 75% for the school (even pre covid they would have been 75-80%), they are surrounded by really smart, motivated students. Because the difference between someone with a 1500 and 1350 is minimal---both are really smart people.

Love the lecture on not falling into traps from someone who fell into the STEM STEM STEM trap. Why didn't you encourage your kid to take a healthy mix of APs in science, humanities, and social sciences instead of sticking to STEM APs? Let me guess -- because you made the "I have a STEM kid" calculation and you put your money on them getting into a strong STEM program based on taking a rigorous STEM load. You were gunning in your own way so maybe cut the sanctimony a little.

No, you are so far off base it's ridiculous. My kid made the decision "I'm a STEM kid" by MS all on their own, really it was apparent in ES. They were in advanced reading/LA in ES and honors LA/History/Humanities all the way thru MS and HS. They are really smart, but gravitated towards math/science because that is what interested them. They could do the humanities AP and would have gotten an A/A-, but chose to take Honors instead and not have an extra 10-15 hours/week of Homework for EACH humanities class. Instead they spent 15-25+ hours per week at their EC (dance). We supported this decision to actually sleep more than 2-3 hours per night and to maintain their mental health in HS. They did toss in AP Psych because it sounded interesting and they loved it, but have no interest in majoring in it.

This is a kid who was at the top of their math starting in K and 1st grade classes---a kid who gets the concepts immediately, and never went to Kumon or any type of tutoring. Their 1st grade teacher told me they were one of 2 kids in their advanced class of 30 who just "got it" and were way ahead of the majority, most of whom were there because they had been drilled with Kumon or flash cards, and I would volunteer in the class and could see this as well.
They love math and chemistry and coding. But we didn't push them to do EC based on STEM. We let them focus on dance, because that's what interested them and they wanted to be a part of. In late ES/early MS, it was proposed to put them 3 grade levels ahead in math but we didn't do it. We moved at that time and did not think it was healthy for a 6th grader to be with all 8th graders in a new school with totally new people. So they stuck with 2 grade levels ahead. Had we not moved, the kid would have hit Calculus in 10th grade and easily gotten an A.

Not everyone who is in stem was "pushed into it". Some people just naturally excel at it. If my kid wanted to take only Humantiies courses, I would have no issues with it. They can be an English Lit major if they want, but they would be miserable with that, and why would I force something like that (or rather force any topics)?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

Please share why you believe the system is "unfair and fuked up." I'm not necessarily in disagreement but I'm curious about your perspective.

Why are you asking if you are not in disagreement.
Same reasons.

I honestly don't care where DS ends up. He's had 2 waitlists and 6 approvals. Waiting on the last 4 decisions. Just want him to make up his mind so I can start buying merch!!