Anonymous wrote:OP, you've gotten a lot of slack because you asked how to address the teacher. The direct answer is, you don't.

Your child in HS, and it sounds like they are advocating for themselves and seeing the teacher when they can, outside of class time, which is exactly what they should be doing.

You, as a parent, are hiring outside tutors, which is exactly what you should be doing. If you need a better tutor, find one. Put a message out on the school list of what you're looking for, I'm sure many students have been in a similar position, in a similar class, and their parents have found excellent tutors.

The year will be over soon, your child can always do mathnasium over the summer if with the extra help from the teacher, and the tutor, you feel it still wasn't enough. Nothing else for you to do

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Your daughter is in AP calculus and you are still the one speaking for her?

Your daughter and others are struggling in AP calculus, one of the hardest hs courses offered, and you think it is the fault of the teacher?

My daughter has spoken to the teacher a million times about this, gone in to her lunch tutoring sessions, etc. My reaching out at the end of the third quarter of the year--after my daughter has been attempting to get help since September--doesn't seem particularly inappropriate to me.

In addition, since my daughter is studying regularly, getting lunchtime help from the teacher, has an outside tutor - yes, I do think that the teacher and her approach to teaching is contributing to this problem.[i][u] I support teacher autonomy but teachers are not perfect. Obviously we believe my daughter is mainly responsible for her learning, which is why we've addressed this first by getting her outside help. You'll notice that YOU said "it is the fault of the teacher" and I did not.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the constructive feedback. Glad you spent your time this morning being snarky to someone asking for some help.

Actually... the fact that she's still struggling despite having a tutor, going to lunch sessions, and studying a lot suggest it's NOT mainly a teacher issue, but rather a content issue. If it wasa just a teacher issue, the tutor would be able to turn things around pretty quickly.

I'm not saying that to bash your daughter, but to help you realize that shes's in a very challenging class and she may have reached her "this is super easy" limit. And that's ok. AP Calc is a pretty normal place for smart kids to reach that limit. Now she has to learn to push beyond that - what a valuable life skill!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Yup, small groups can be beneficial but the focus should be on instruction. MCPS truly is messed up this year.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Your daughter is in AP calculus and you are still the one speaking for her?

Your daughter and others are struggling in AP calculus, one of the hardest hs courses offered, and you think it is the fault of the teacher?

My daughter has spoken to the teacher a million times about this, gone in to her lunch tutoring sessions, etc. My reaching out at the end of the third quarter of the year--after my daughter has been attempting to get help since September--doesn't seem particularly inappropriate to me.

In addition, since my daughter is studying regularly, getting lunchtime help from the teacher, has an outside tutor - yes, I do think that the teacher and her approach to teaching is contributing to this problem.[i][u] I support teacher autonomy but teachers are not perfect. Obviously we believe my daughter is mainly responsible for her learning, which is why we've addressed this first by getting her outside help. You'll notice that YOU said "it is the fault of the teacher" and I did not.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the constructive feedback. Glad you spent your time this morning being snarky to someone asking for some help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

In some area districts, teachers are marked down when evaluators sit in their classes and observe that they are relying too much on direct instruction. If you're teaching AP Calculus, you need to be able to teach without these limitations. This is part of the current reform math/NCTM effort to emphasize inquiry learning and making learning student-driven. I do, we do, you do is now strongly discouraged. The current approach is undermining math instruction but it remains popular nonetheless.