Anonymous
03/19/2023 12:19
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Too conservative
LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.
Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.
That's right, most normal kids are not qualified.
You need to be a top student and exceptional.
And you still won’t want to go there unless you are from a Catholic family that has pushed it as the Catholic Harvard your whole life. Most people do not think of it as somewhere to apply because most people are not Catholic.
Not many people are hardcore bigots.
Religious affiliation is one of the many many factors like location, program offerings, prestige/ranking, size, public/private, cost, etc. etc.
Religious affiliation could be a down side for some people just like any of the factors, but it's just one of many.
Notre Dame was on top of my non-Catholic kid's list for Mendoza business program, sense of community(without being fratty) and security, student caring and service, and beautiful campus which felt the right size. DC wanted more urban setting schools, so most of the schools on the list were urban.
So location was the biggest downside for Notre Dame, but despite that, DC chose Notre Dame for all the factors combined.
That's fine but your child is an outlier. Outside of Catholic applicants attending Catholic schools, and students from the Midwest looking for an elite school relatively close to home, ND gets major points off both for being a very Catholic institution (perceived as more Catholic both in culture and institutionally than Georgetown, for instance) and location.
Sure, some kids might be drawn to the school for other reasons -- it's a high quality education and some people are less bothered by the weather an isolation. But that's true of any school. I know a student with great stats who had ASU in their top 5 choices because of the dance program. That doesn't mean ASU is magically more selective generally, it means it was a fit for one specific student.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 12:17
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
REA was 15% (1701 kids accepted from 11,163 applications from 4,601 high schools).
They haven’t announced overall how many RD apps yet, except for number of acceptances (1698) from 7,862 high schools (but many high schools, particularly Catholic ones, have multiple applicants).
They haven’t announced overall how many RD apps yet, except for number of acceptances (1698) from 7,862 high schools (but many high schools, particularly Catholic ones, have multiple applicants).
Anonymous
03/19/2023 12:16
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
I feel like there’s a delusional poster that doesn’t think Notre Dame is prestigious. Acceptance rate isn’t everything - Northeastern now has an acceptance rate that rivals ivies. But nobody would say it’s Ivy level. I’m grew up in the Chicago area and going to Notre Dame was a very big deal. I live outside the beltway now and Notre Dame has an excellent reputation. Maybe it’s different in DC, but nobody would think a Notre Dame grad was a dud.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 11:46
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Too conservative
LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.
Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.
That's right, most normal kids are not qualified.
You need to be a top student and exceptional.
And you still won’t want to go there unless you are from a Catholic family that has pushed it as the Catholic Harvard your whole life. Most people do not think of it as somewhere to apply because most people are not Catholic.
Not many people are hardcore bigots.
Religious affiliation is one of the many many factors like location, program offerings, prestige/ranking, size, public/private, cost, etc. etc.
Religious affiliation could be a down side for some people just like any of the factors, but it's just one of many.
Notre Dame was on top of my non-Catholic kid's list for Mendoza business program, sense of community(without being fratty) and security, student caring and service, and beautiful campus which felt the right size. DC wanted more urban setting schools, so most of the schools on the list were urban.
So location was the biggest downside for Notre Dame, but despite that, DC chose Notre Dame for all the factors combined.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 11:05
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).
As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.
The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school
I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.
What I'm saying is you are automatically assuming Notre Dame would overall become much more selective if they had ED instead of EA. What I'm saying it EA has pros and cons. They have to accept more because their yield will be lower in EA, but they also get more applicants because more people will apply EA than ED. If Notre Dame switched to ED, instead of receiving the 11,163 EA applicants that they did this year, they would receive closer to ~5000 ED applicants because naturally less people are comfortable committing on the spot if they get in. Fortunately for Notre Dame they have the Catholic loyalty so their yield is pretty high anyways, and they probably don't feel the need to do ED. If they really wanted to play the acceptance rate game, they could become like UChicago and offer EA, ED1, and ED2 and accept very few in RD. Maybe they'll do that.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:58
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).
As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.
The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school
I am not at all sure what you are trying to say. EA at Notre Dame is less — not more - selective than it’s RD round. And if you think it is a “wash” that Notre has no ED in terms of its overall acceptance rate, you simply don’t understand the impact of ED on overall admission rates.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:52
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).
As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.
The EA thing is has pros and cons for notre dame. They end up having more early applicants and being more selective in the early round since more people will naturally apply EA. However, their EA yield is lower than it would be if they did ED, so overall it's probably a wash. And the self-selecting applicants to ND help them with yield because for a lot of Catholic students it's their dream school
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:48
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Too conservative
LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.
Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.
That's right, most normal kids are not qualified.
You need to be a top student and exceptional.
And you still won’t want to go there unless you are from a Catholic family that has pushed it as the Catholic Harvard your whole life. Most people do not think of it as somewhere to apply because most people are not Catholic.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:45
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
That's because it is a Catholic university. Applicant choice, not academic quality. Academically they are not "in a different league."
This is just your opinion and boosters for Emory, WashU, etc. could make the exact same argument, because “academic quality” is highly subjective and there’s no agreed upon way to measure it. Whereas selectivity is measurable based on acceptance rates, yield rate, test scores/gpa of class. ND is selective but no more do than Georgetown, WashU, Emory, etc. If you want to argue it has better professors or academic rigor or academic opportunity than other schools, that’s fine, but people aren’t just going to take your word for it.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:41
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
Most of these schools (except for Georgetown) can’t be compared to Notre Dame in terms of acceptance rates because Notre Dame has no ED. John’s Hopkins is more selective at 7%? Maybe. Maybe not. John’s Hopkins has 2 rounds of ED. If Johns Hopkins only had EA like Notre Dame, it would also have a double digit acceptance rate. The same is true for Chicago (more so, as Chicago has 2 rounds of ED and 1 round of EA — unique for a top 20 school).
As for Georgetown, it is more selective than Notre Dame and several schools in your so-called top admissions tier. Why? It is literally the only selective college that has no ED and does not favor it’s EA applicants at all over its RD applicants in admissions. Between that and Georgetown not having the common app, you can safely say it’s properly adjusted admissions rate would probably be more selective than, say, Chicago.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:33
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Too conservative
LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.
Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.
That's right, most normal kids are not qualified.
You need to be a top student and exceptional.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:21
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
That's because it is a Catholic university. Applicant choice, not academic quality. Academically they are not "in a different league."
Anonymous
03/19/2023 10:16
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Dame has an 18% acceptance rate this year with a 22 % RD rate. That significantly higher than all the other schools in the top 25.
Where are you getting 18% from? It’s definitely lower. The acceptance rates from last year at top schools show Notre Dame is on par with many of the best colleges.
Schools significantly more selective than Notre Dame:
Harvard (3%)
Stanford (4%)
Caltech (4%)
Columbia (4%)
MIT (4%)
Duke (5%)
Yale (5%)
Brown (5%)
Princeton (6%)
UPenn (6%)
Dartmouth (6%)
Vanderbilt (6%)
Northwestern (7%)
Cornell (7%)
John’s Hopkins (7%)
Notre Dame’s Peer Group Acceptance Rates:
Rice (9%)
UCLA (9%)
Tufts (10%)
WashU (11%)
Carnegie Mellon (11%)
Berkeley (11%)
Georgetown (12%)
Notre Dame (13%)
Emory (16%)
UNC (17%)
Georgia Tech (17%)
UMich (18%)
No horse in this race but I think this basically reaffirms my existing impression. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke, etc. are still in a different league than Notre Dame, and instead their peer set is more like WashU, Georgetown, and Emory. Those are great schools too but not quite the level of the first grouping.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 09:53
Subject: Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Conservative evangelicals are ruining the schools. Georgetown seems to have found the sweet spot.
Most top colleges (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, to name a few) were founded by evangelical Christians.
And Catholics are not evangelical Christians.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 09:44
Subject: Re:Why is Notre Dame bot as selective as it's peers?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Too conservative
LOL, I know some Catholics who refused to let their kids go there because it was too liberal.
Yeah but most normal high school kids don’t want to go to a Catholic college so the pool is just smaller.
Normal?