Anonymous wrote:A minivan is also a large vehicle. OP, are you equally worried about those? Genuinely curious.

Thanks to WFH, I drive very rarely. I think the best things we can do to prevent car accidents are (1) promote WFH and (2) promote safe walkable communities with footpaths (preferably separate from the road, protected by something more than a curb) which (3) necessarily means mixed use development, with stores near housing and housing near stores, as well as more of the right of way given over to paths and plantings.

But FYI, your "big SUVs kill people" argument does not make me want to drive a smaller car unless everyone else is doing it, so talk to your legislators about that. You are not going to solve a collective action problem by yelling at individuals online.

Minivans tend to be safer than SUVs due to visibility. Also, in my experience, people buy minivans because they need them (they aren't considered cool cars, people buy them because they need the seating, or in some cases for accessilbity reasons since minivans can be the best option for people with mobility issues due to the low entry and the fact that seats can be easily removed).
Whereas people buy SUVs for other reasons that I don't consider to be as valid -- often simply because they are trendy or convey status, but also because they like sitting up higher than others. The arguments that SUVs are safer are very unconvincing to me, as I've explained. In any case, SUVs are way more prevalent than minivans, so it doesn't seem people need to be deterred from needlessly buying a minivan. Whereas people by SUVs all the time just because.

I share your dream of more walkable, safer communities with more mixed used development, as well as policies that reduce the need for people to drive, especially to commute long distances. However, I tend to view all of this (the proliferation of SUVs, and the development of car-centric communities and proliferation of long commutes) as part of the same cultural attitudes. I don't think legislators are going to be able to change much until we convince people that caring about one another, and community, is more important than just feeling really comfy in your big vehicle during your 30 minute drive to work. I think we need to shift the window.

And the way I deal with the fact that big SUVs kill more people is by driving as little as possible, instead of buying a big SUV. It costs less and is always the safer choice. I think more people should try it.

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Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.

Yes, children sometimes run into the street. They lack the practical experience or cognitive ability to know better. This is just how it is, there is no way to change this. Many kids are killed by vehicles because they get three steps ahead of their parents, or they suddenly pull their hand away and dash off because they are distracted or enticed by something. If you have had a young child, you know that you cannot perfectly control every movement they make.

One solution to this is to just not let children go places that there are cars. This is what a lot of people have started to do. Kids don't play in front yards. They definitely don't play in the streets. They don't play in parks unless the parks are gated off. And so on. One solution is to just cage up the kids so that they can never accidentally run into the street, which is something kids will do sometimes because they are kids.

Another solution would be to change the way our lives are set up so that kids can be safer without having to be caged up. That means: lowering speed limits, eliminating traffic on more roads, widening sidewalks. It also means reducing the number of vehicles on the road that pose the gravest threat to children -- SUVs.

The difference between you and me is that you think you can drive your SUV and expect small children to just adjust their behavior to accommodate it, whereas I think you, the adult, should adjust your behavior and choices to accommodate the inevitable behavior of small children so that they can be protected.

So teaching your child basic road safety is somehow catering to my SUV loving lifestyle? Got it. You are INSANE! Whether you live here or in Europe children need to learn how to be safe outside/when crossing the street. YES THEY NEED TO KNOW that cars are going to be on the street and can kill them. In Europe the streets are a lot narrower and children routinely don't have the parks to play in they do here. Take your meds lady.
You keep trying to

How about you worry about you?

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Anonymous wrote:Know what vehicle is really big and safe?

A public bus. Maybe people should try riding in those, if their main concern is safety.

If only we had that option

You do. You do have that option. I don't get the eye roll.

If you're primary concern is keeping your family safe, you should get rid of your car altogether, move near a bus stop, and use public transportation exclusively. It's much, much safer. Then you only have to worry about being hit by a car while walking to the bus stop, but other posters have explained that pedestrian deaths are just a very small percentage of vehicular deaths, so that risk is still smaller than strapping your children in SUVs where at any time you could be hit by a truck, bus, or a larger SUV.

I don't have the option. The public transportation system in this country is abysmal. I can't afford to live in DC (and don't want to anyway). I like the peace and quiet of my neighborhood. I like the school my special needs child attends, I like my neighbors. I like that I can be on a hiking trail within 3 minutes. So I will live my life the way I want and I suggest you do the same.

A minivan is also a large vehicle. OP, are you equally worried about those? Genuinely curious.

Thanks to WFH, I drive very rarely. I think the best things we can do to prevent car accidents are (1) promote WFH and (2) promote safe walkable communities with footpaths (preferably separate from the road, protected by something more than a curb) which (3) necessarily means mixed use development, with stores near housing and housing near stores, as well as more of the right of way given over to paths and plantings.

But FYI, your "big SUVs kill people" argument does not make me want to drive a smaller car unless everyone else is doing it, so talk to your legislators about that. You are not going to solve a collective action problem by yelling at individuals online.

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Anonymous wrote:Are you the troll OP from the other thread? Just wondering.

I am not a troll and I am not the OP of the other thread. I feel passionate about this subject.

Whatever you are, you are certainly boring.

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that people are fixated on SUVs like this. So weird.

It's bizarre to me that you are not fixated on something that leads to more people dying every single year, senselessly, simply because you like sitting up high and having extra leg room.

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Anonymous wrote:Know what vehicle is really big and safe?

A public bus. Maybe people should try riding in those, if their main concern is safety.

If only we had that option

You do. You do have that option. I don't get the eye roll.

If you're primary concern is keeping your family safe, you should get rid of your car altogether, move near a bus stop, and use public transportation exclusively. It's much, much safer. Then you only have to worry about being hit by a car while walking to the bus stop, but other posters have explained that pedestrian deaths are just a very small percentage of vehicular deaths, so that risk is still smaller than strapping your children in SUVs where at any time you could be hit by a truck, bus, or a larger SUV.

It’s bizarre to me that people are fixated on SUVs like this. So weird.

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Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.

Yes, children sometimes run into the street. They lack the practical experience or cognitive ability to know better. This is just how it is, there is no way to change this. Many kids are killed by vehicles because they get three steps ahead of their parents, or they suddenly pull their hand away and dash off because they are distracted or enticed by something. If you have had a young child, you know that you cannot perfectly control every movement they make.

One solution to this is to just not let children go places that there are cars. This is what a lot of people have started to do. Kids don't play in front yards. They definitely don't play in the streets. They don't play in parks unless the parks are gated off. And so on. One solution is to just cage up the kids so that they can never accidentally run into the street, which is something kids will do sometimes because they are kids.

Another solution would be to change the way our lives are set up so that kids can be safer without having to be caged up. That means: lowering speed limits, eliminating traffic on more roads, widening sidewalks. It also means reducing the number of vehicles on the road that pose the gravest threat to children -- SUVs.

The difference between you and me is that you think you can drive your SUV and expect small children to just adjust their behavior to accommodate it, whereas I think you, the adult, should adjust your behavior and choices to accommodate the inevitable behavior of small children so that they can be protected.

Anonymous wrote:Know what vehicle is really big and safe?

A public bus. Maybe people should try riding in those, if their main concern is safety.

If only we had that option

Know what vehicle is really big and safe?

A public bus. Maybe people should try riding in those, if their main concern is safety.

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Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

NP. There's a balance to be struck here. Given the fact that there are so many full size pickups and large SUVs already on the road, I make the choice to have at least a CR-V around me, as opposed to the smallest car/sedan that would meet my needs.

You're arguing this out of both sides of your mouth. You're saying that we should all buy the smallest vehicles possible to endanger everyone around us less (which is logically sound but impossible to accomplish on our own). Since I can't do that, I buy something reasonable, in the middle, and you say "well everyone else is bigger, so you've wasted your effort."

A Suburban might be bigger and heavier than my CR-V, but I'll have a better chance in the CR-V than I will in a Chevy Bolt.

My next vehicle will be a large truck or SUV. I need more space, towing capacity, and off-road ability. And because the proliferation of electric vehicles makes driving more dangerous, since they are heavy and more likely to cause serious damage in an accident. And since they are no better for the environment, given the mining needed for the batteries, the energy required to manufacture them, and the destruction to our roads due to the great weight - I no longer feel the need to do my part to protect the environment.

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Anonymous wrote:You know that a Camry and RAV4 weigh the same, right?

The Rav4 sits up higher and is thus more dangerous to pedestrians. Also, to the PP who said she bought an SUV for visibility -- thing about what you are trying to make visible. SUV's make it easier to see over things, but they REDUCE visibility around your vehicle. Even with back up cameras, sitting up higher in your vehicle means that you are less able to see small objects (and small people) close to your vehicle.

It feels good to be able to see farther, but what is the actual benefit of that? Wouldn't you rather be able to better see a bike, a child, a dog, a ball rolling into the street, from a safety perspective? You are buying an SUV so you can see over things, but what about the stuff your SUV keeps you from seeing?

I have a 360 camera and crazy sensitive sensors. I’m LESS likely to hit something than my old sedan with poor visibility and no cameras/sensors.

But if you had a sedan with cameras and sensors...

You still sit much lower in a sedan. Go test drive one and stop spouting off your ignorance.

I'm a NP, but did you read any of this thread-sure in your new SUV you feel safer, but if you had replaced your old sedan with a new sedan the road would be safer for everyone. So if you only care about yourself own it but don't call others who have better values ignorant. Ignorant.

Well I think my values are better since I'm in the business of protecting my family in case of collision. You ARE ignorant if you can't see that some people differing values that are not inferior to your pie in the sky ones.

Are you not in the business of protecting your family when they are on sidewalks, crossing streets, playing in the yard or in a friends yard, etc.? Because I am in that business and that is why I hate SUVs.

Fun fact: if a driver loses control of their vehicle and runs into your family sitting on the outdoor patio of a coffee shop, you and your children are more likely to die if the vehicle is an SUV than if it is a sedan.

So when I rail against SUVs, I'm actually trying to protect you and your family, even though you don't give a flying f--k about me and mine. Have a good one! I hope you don't have to spend any time outside your SUV!

Well, I can get hit by a meteor just walking down the street too. I'll still take my chances since most collisions don't occur by drivers plowing people sitting in a coffee shop (statistics). Since I'm statistically more likely to be involved in a collision while in my vehicle, I feel pretty good about my choice. Your concern is touching albeit misguided.

Statistics, huh? According to the IIHS, it's true that a greater proportion of passenger and driver deaths in multi-vehicle collisions were riding in cars. However, SUVs and pickups are more likely to get into single-vehicle crashes, and therefore account for more driver and passenger deaths in single-vehicle crashes.

Pedestrians deaths from vehicle account for about 17% of all vehicular deaths. That's about 1 in 6. So a little more likely than a meteor hitting you as you walk down the street.

You think you SUV is safer for you, but that's arguable and based more on your beliefs than on facts. It's definitely more dangerous for other people -- that's just fact.

So 17% of deaths are pedestrians but I should still care more about that than a collision with another car? Bless your heart.

Do you always just read the parts that support your point and ignore the parts that don't. Your SUV is more likely to tip over and kill the people inside, dummy.

Also, which SUV are you buying. In a multi-car collision, you are more likely to die if you are in the smaller vehicle. As someone upthread noted, the majority of car sales in the US are now SUVs. So are you going out and buying the largest possible SUV? If not, then your family is less safe -- your crossover isn't going to cut it when it gets hit by something larger. PLUS it's more likely to kill pedestrians. PLUS its more likely to get into an accident all by itself.

All by itself, huh. OK, now I know you're off your rocker. As I have stated numerous time, my priority is my family. My SUV still stands a much better chance than your Prius in ANY collision. You drive whatever the hell you want, teach your children to cross the street properly and don't worry about what the rest of us are doing. I promise you, it will make your life a whole lot happier.

Wow victim blaming at its finest. Yep. its the kids crossing the streets fault. God you are despicable.

Yeah, no child has EVER run into the street chasing after a ball. All drives (all SUV drivers) are just murderous animals. Yeah, I'm the despicable one.

Are you ok? Like you don't sounds mentally all there.