Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how people are particular about do Vs Caribbean doctor but okay with seeing an unsupervised PA or NP (can get one of these degrees online no problem) lol

No you can’t just become a NP or PA online without clinical education. 🙄

the clinical hours are a fraction--say 10 percent of what any md/do/fmg has to do before they can start prescribing and making life/death medical decisions.

Now--I trust older NPs more--ones that were first nurses for 10-20 years...the young NPs, 4 year BS and two year masters--man I run from them--they have like no experience and huge egos....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you see older DOs or MD from caribbean schools they were definitely not as smart or didn't study as hard in college. Maybe they had a hard upbringing or partied too much when they were young. It wasn't as hard 20-30 years ago to get into medical school as it is now. Now there is such an emphasis on diversity and inclusion that getting into medical school is much more than just grades and mcat scores. You can be pretty smart now and not get in because of all these factors and perhaps more applicants so I wouldn't look down as much on a younger DO or caribbean school graduate. Still when it comes down to it, most of medicine isn't that complicated and doesn't require as much brain power as getting all A's in college.

agree 100 percent,,,which worries me about my kid who wants to go to medical school....im trying to point them to other careers..

That's why you need to seek out an Asian male doctor who is young. If they went to an allopathic school recently, it must mean they are several standard deviations smarter than the average of the med school, because they need to be that much better to gain admissions these days.

true but someone who is that booksmart (and had to spends years volunteering) does not really have time to develop social skills..and social skills are as important as iq in medicine///now if you are a surgeon then you are just born with that-its a talent-like a beautiful singing voice--you cant learn it...

Anonymous wrote:Love how people are particular about do Vs Caribbean doctor but okay with seeing an unsupervised PA or NP (can get one of these degrees online no problem) lol

No you can’t just become a NP or PA online without clinical education. 🙄

I’ve moved around a lot so have had a lot of different doctors over the years, and I have chronic health issues so I go fairly frequently. My DOs have been every bit as good and often better than the MDs I went to.

DO schools and Caribbean medical schools teach the same basic medical school courses as stateside allopathic medicine schools. DO schools have an added element to the education, not less than. And all the graduates of these schools have to compete for and complete residencies in the USA and then any post graduate speciality programs they seek beyond basic medical licensing. DOs and Caribbean medical school graduates also have to pass the same medical licensing boards as allopathic medicine students do.

I wouldn’t hesitate to see either and would simply ask for a second opinion as always when indicated, and I would fire any doctor I wasn’t happy with no matter how elite their degree.

Anonymous wrote:I’m an admitted doctor snob from the get go and my infrequent forays into treatment with lesser credentialed doctors have only reinforced my preference for people with better resumes.

That being said the one person I know who went to medical school overseas (Philippines) is bright, committed, and now very experienced and reasonably financially successful.

My mother had a military DO assigned to her, and he provided good service well within the standard of care. He also was significantly more personable, attentive and interested in her welfare than the better-credentialed but rather arrogant “cookbook” MD who took over when doctor no. 1 was transferred.

That’s nice. But we aren’t talking about people generally doing their medical training overseas. We are talking about Americans going to Carribean medical schools. That almost always happens eva use they do not get into US schools. It’s a thing. Google it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you see older DOs or MD from caribbean schools they were definitely not as smart or didn't study as hard in college. Maybe they had a hard upbringing or partied too much when they were young. It wasn't as hard 20-30 years ago to get into medical school as it is now. Now there is such an emphasis on diversity and inclusion that getting into medical school is much more than just grades and mcat scores. You can be pretty smart now and not get in because of all these factors and perhaps more applicants so I wouldn't look down as much on a younger DO or caribbean school graduate. Still when it comes down to it, most of medicine isn't that complicated and doesn't require as much brain power as getting all A's in college.

agree 100 percent,,,which worries me about my kid who wants to go to medical school....im trying to point them to other careers..

That's why you need to seek out an Asian male doctor who is young. If they went to an allopathic school recently, it must mean they are several standard deviations smarter than the average of the med school, because they need to be that much better to gain admissions these days.

Caribbean schools and Osteopathic schools are for people who scored low on the MCAT, had bad grades, a combo of both, and who couldn't get into a MD school.

People will argue to eternity otherwise, but you have to be really stupid to believe any other arguments for why someone would attend school in the Caribbean. Everyone knows Caribbean schools accept people with much lower MCAT scores and GPAs.

Now they being said, no one is saying Caribbean docs and DOs cannot provide good care. Despite popular belief, clinical medicine is not all that hard, and you don't need genius level intellect to practice it. It is just another service job like being a plumber or electrician. The hardest part about being a doctor is dealing with people and emotions, not actual biomedical science.

It kind of depends for me on what I am seeing the doctor for and how long they have been in practice. I had a Caribbean grad obgyn who was great. I think she might have also been a native of the Caribbean. I’ve also seen DOs. I would look at their training and certifications as well, but if I were being treated for something very serious I might be more selective.

Anonymous wrote:I think if you see older DOs or MD from caribbean schools they were definitely not as smart or didn't study as hard in college. Maybe they had a hard upbringing or partied too much when they were young. It wasn't as hard 20-30 years ago to get into medical school as it is now. Now there is such an emphasis on diversity and inclusion that getting into medical school is much more than just grades and mcat scores. You can be pretty smart now and not get in because of all these factors and perhaps more applicants so I wouldn't look down as much on a younger DO or caribbean school graduate. Still when it comes down to it, most of medicine isn't that complicated and doesn't require as much brain power as getting all A's in college.

agree 100 percent,,,which worries me about my kid who wants to go to medical school....im trying to point them to other careers..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a guy who didn't get into his top med schools so ended up going to a Caribbean school. His parents were pissed at the time at his decision but paid for it nonetheless. He's now a top anesthesiologist in the Boston area.

WTF is a top anesthesiologist? Patients don’t usually chose them, they hardly meet them in most cases. I’m guessing you mean he makes a ton of money? That tracks.

I know a doc who went to Caribbean med school; grew up with him. He is 100% a doc for the money and relatively stability of the field (we grew up relatively poor, though his parents did have enough money for med school obv). He is literally the craziest person I know (though I am a boring person, so it was just stuff like sleeping with his cousin, driving his car 120 on back roads, and a bit of drugs and nightlife in NYC during college — but just the way his mind works was a bit nuts).

I judiciously avoid docs from those schools.

Hospitals seek out these folks, not patients.

Right but what metric is a top doc measured? You didn’t kill your patients??

There are certain residency spots in the US that are very hard to get: plastics, orthopedic surgery, dermatology. There are standardized test all medical students must take that get factored into the algorithm of where/what residency spots med students get. The easiest being internal med and family practice. So…if a Dr graduates with high test scores on these, top grades in school, interviews well, that is all factored in. If my plastic surgeon jumped through all the hoops necessary to secure a U.S. general surgery residency, U.S. plastics fellowship, and passes an oral board exam plus a written one before become board certified in their specialty - I don’t care where he went to med school.

I think if you see older DOs or MD from caribbean schools they were definitely not as smart or didn't study as hard in college. Maybe they had a hard upbringing or partied too much when they were young. It wasn't as hard 20-30 years ago to get into medical school as it is now. Now there is such an emphasis on diversity and inclusion that getting into medical school is much more than just grades and mcat scores. You can be pretty smart now and not get in because of all these factors and perhaps more applicants so I wouldn't look down as much on a younger DO or caribbean school graduate. Still when it comes down to it, most of medicine isn't that complicated and doesn't require as much brain power as getting all A's in college.

Does not bother me in the least. If they get through boards and had a good residency and decades of work experience they are fine. Honestly has a healthy 40yo I see mostly PAs and NPs.

I’m an admitted doctor snob from the get go and my infrequent forays into treatment with lesser credentialed doctors have only reinforced my preference for people with better resumes.

That being said the one person I know who went to medical school overseas (Philippines) is bright, committed, and now very experienced and reasonably financially successful.

My mother had a military DO assigned to her, and he provided good service well within the standard of care. He also was significantly more personable, attentive and interested in her welfare than the better-credentialed but rather arrogant “cookbook” MD who took over when doctor no. 1 was transferred.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an allopathic doc from a very reputable American med school, I can say without reservation the admission criteria to American MD schools is more stringent (GPA/MCAT scores) than DO and Caribbean schools. I.e. it’s easier to gain admission to those aforementioned schools. Having said that, we all have to pass the same usmle exams to gain a license to practice medicine. A large benefit to American MD schools is we get (in general) better access to better residencies, which may lead to better training. I do work with foreign and DO grads all the time and for the most part they serve and practice admirably. One thing I see in my health system, however, is that DO and FMG account for a higher proportion of medical errors up for review. Take it FWIW.

NP/PA's make even more probably.

Just need to make a comment here as the critiques of NPs and PAs has flared a bit. I was a bedside nurse for a long time, mostly critical care. Medical errors are made by bedside nurses, but also prevented by bedside nurses, in far greater numbers. Experienced nurses, especially at training hospitals, will question orders that may not be ideal or wrong, pharmacy checks doses, etc. MDs are not infallible.

I posted the above comment and also agree with you...we all should be checked by others--it makes patient care much better..the problem is that it often comes with eye rolls--MD to NP, vice versa, doc to nurse and vice versa...our jobs are hard in medicine and more compassion by all the players is needed.

Agree 100%. Goal should always be maximizing the care of patients in a collaborative manner- compassion for patients and each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an allopathic doc from a very reputable American med school, I can say without reservation the admission criteria to American MD schools is more stringent (GPA/MCAT scores) than DO and Caribbean schools. I.e. it’s easier to gain admission to those aforementioned schools. Having said that, we all have to pass the same usmle exams to gain a license to practice medicine. A large benefit to American MD schools is we get (in general) better access to better residencies, which may lead to better training. I do work with foreign and DO grads all the time and for the most part they serve and practice admirably. One thing I see in my health system, however, is that DO and FMG account for a higher proportion of medical errors up for review. Take it FWIW.

As an FMG from Eastern Europe I greatly benefitted from taking the USMLE when it was graded---scored 99th percentile for part 1 and 2 and got into top 5 residency in the field I wanted...a couple of years ago they decided to make it just P/F (I wont comment why that was done) it will make it much harder for DOs, FMGs and even Caribbean grads to separate themselves to their advantage.....

Step 2 is still scored so residencies use that.

the scored part has a clock ticking--I hear it loudly....