Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends. If they are pretty or handsome and athletic and charming and socially manipulative, probably not. They will sail through life being a bro or mean girl.

But I don't think that should be your focus. What matters is how this is affecting your kid.

Agree. The girl who bullied me and several others at school was drop-dead gorgeous and smart. She'd friend you up and then tear you apart in a humiliating way. Some adult women (me included) are still getting over the trauma she caused. She's doing great though. Still gorgeous, got a husband that adores her, has three kids, plenty of money, and travels the world.

My daughter has a "friend" like this, my daughter hates her but wants to be in the popular group--so there is that, everything has its price--ultimately. This is my daughters price of being one of the popular kids--i ask her if its worth it....only she can decide.

I had a number of "friends" like that growing up. The problem is that it's not just about trying to fit in with the most popular group in school. When people form groups, they often instinctively create hierarchies. So even if your group is a bunch of bookish kids who don't care about sports or clothes, there may be a hierarchy in that group and there will be a lot of pressure to be "friends" with the people at the top of that hierarchy. And usually the people at the top have assets the others lack -- they might be the riches or the best looking, or they might have the best grades, or they might have more assertive/domineering personalities -- it can be a lot of things. This is often the price people pay for having the protection of a group.

So your daughter might have this issue even if she wasn't trying to get in with the most popular kids. This is a tribal thing and it can be most brutal in school. I think it gets easier as you get older and your social group is less restricted to school peers or even people your exact same age. It's also easier as an adult to have several friend groups, which diminishes the power of the group and thus the power of any hierarchy in the group. But it still happens sometimes.

I think the best thing you can do to help a kid break the habit of trying to befriend the "top of the pyramid" kids within social cliques is to give them more social options. Enroll them in activities outside of school so they can develop friends there. Spend time in the summer with cousins so they develop those friendships. Give your child multiple outlets for forming friendships and bonds so that if they are in a group at school and someone starts to exclude them, it's less painful and they can simply turn their attention to other groups. It really helps. If school is the be all and end all for a kid, it puts a lot of pressure on them to fit in and belong there, which sometimes means becoming subservient to individuals in power positions. You can diminish that pressure by expanding their horizons outside the schoolhouse walls.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends. If they are pretty or handsome and athletic and charming and socially manipulative, probably not. They will sail through life being a bro or mean girl.

But I don't think that should be your focus. What matters is how this is affecting your kid.

Agree. The girl who bullied me and several others at school was drop-dead gorgeous and smart. She'd friend you up and then tear you apart in a humiliating way. Some adult women (me included) are still getting over the trauma she caused. She's doing great though. Still gorgeous, got a husband that adores her, has three kids, plenty of money, and travels the world.

My daughter has a "friend" like this, my daughter hates her but wants to be in the popular group--so there is that, everything has its price--ultimately. This is my daughters price of being one of the popular kids--i ask her if its worth it....only she can decide.

Anonymous wrote:Depends. If they are pretty or handsome and athletic and charming and socially manipulative, probably not. They will sail through life being a bro or mean girl.

But I don't think that should be your focus. What matters is how this is affecting your kid.

Agree. The girl who bullied me and several others at school was drop-dead gorgeous and smart. She'd friend you up and then tear you apart in a humiliating way. Some adult women (me included) are still getting over the trauma she caused. She's doing great though. Still gorgeous, got a husband that adores her, has three kids, plenty of money, and travels the world.

I really dislike the whole premise of this question, the idea of “comeuppance” for kids. I will say, when I think about my own life and my DD’s life, that in each case we had one person who was really mean to us in the middle school years, someone who might be described as a “bully.” Both of those people were dealing with a very difficult situations that we just couldn’t have known about at the time. So yes, they did hurtful things but I certainly wouldn’t wish some kind of karmic retribution in them, their lives had enormous and painful challenges. And I realize there are plenty of people who do mean things who don’t have huge challenges, but the truth is we just don’t know what people have going on in their private lives especially kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is dealing with a bully right now. We are doing everything we can, but they keep getting away with it.


Do you think at some point the chronic "mean kids" get what they deserve? Or are they living a consequence-free existence?

You have to be a miserable s.o.b. to bully people. They already have their comeuppance.

I don’t think so. This is what people always say, oh, the bully probably has some issues in their own lives. I have seen that in really serious bullies. But run of the mill mean girls and guys? Those kids seem to come from families that raise them to be entitled and get their way, no matter what that means for other people.

This is my experience, too. Like I can tell the difference between a kid (or adult) who is just lashing out because of their own challenges, taking it out in people, and someone who just dies not care about others or believes their needs are more important.

Like one dead give away is if the person will express remorse or take responsibility if they are called out on it. People from screwed up backgrounds will often apologize quickly, they often are more critical of themselves gif their bad behavior than anyone because they have low self esteem.

But the worst bullies I’ve seen never admit fault. They always have a justification or explanation for their behavior, often one that blames the victim of their bullying. Even if they can be coerced into apologizing, they will make clear that they are just saying their lines. They truly do not care that their actions hurt someone else. And in the cases where I’ve known how someone like this grew up, and what their relationship with parents is, a common thread is that their parents did not hold them accountable at home, they were the favorite and/or their needs were given preference in the family. Sometimes there’s a history of bullying a sibling, but it won’t be seen as bullying in the family— that sibling will be blamed for being annoying or not appreciative enough.

The worst bullies are the ones who were raised to believe they matter more than other people. Look at sociopaths in the public eye, many of them have this background— families who told them “we are better than other people.” It’s messed up and these people are scary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is dealing with a bully right now. We are doing everything we can, but they keep getting away with it.


Do you think at some point the chronic "mean kids" get what they deserve? Or are they living a consequence-free existence?

You have to be a miserable s.o.b. to bully people. They already have their comeuppance.

It's a lifestyle and the same mean girls that cheat on their boyfriends and with their 'bestie's' BF are the same ones doing that stuff when married.

Yep. Many have the same rotten dishonest lying manipulative core their entire lives. No empathy or care for others

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is dealing with a bully right now. We are doing everything we can, but they keep getting away with it.


Do you think at some point the chronic "mean kids" get what they deserve? Or are they living a consequence-free existence?

You have to be a miserable s.o.b. to bully people. They already have their comeuppance.

I don’t think so. This is what people always say, oh, the bully probably has some issues in their own lives. I have seen that in really serious bullies. But run of the mill mean girls and guys? Those kids seem to come from families that raise them to be entitled and get their way, no matter what that means for other people.

Anonymous wrote:Just the other day I posted about a "mean" mom action that bothered me. I got no sympathy here. Instead, I was told that it shouldn't bother me that a parent was bragging about her kid when she knew full well that my kid was going through a rough time. People expect others to just have a tough skin and let the mean peoples' words and actions roll off like water on the back of a duck.

Based on what you said alone in this post (I don't know what you posted the other day), that mom was self-involved and insensitive rather than actively mean to you. It would take you being pretty self-involved as well to see an acquaintance's insensitivity to your feelings as meanness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here--I don't want the bully to get hurt physically, that's not what I meant. But what if the bully is a girl who spreads rumors and lies about another girl (not my kids' situation), would at some point the bully's friends realize that this person could turn and do the same thing to them at any second, and choose to stop hanging out with her. Or, like a pp said, people confront her about it so she doesn't just get away Scot free. I don't want them to get bullied. I want them to have consequences for their bullying. I said it wrong in my original post.

I am still not understanding why you would care though. And ultimately I’d just wish all kids well and hope they have a nice life.

bullies are insecure or threatened in some way and so it’s best to just remember that and let go.

Come on. Let's be honest here. Everyone who has ever been bullied or has had a child bullied has hoped that the bully would learn a lesson a change—whether that lesson is from their own parents, discipline from teachers or school admin, or other kids calling them out on their behavior. But there is a phrase, "Snitches get stitches" and that is the reason so many kids don't tell—they live in fear of the consequences.

There was a bully on my street who physically assaulted me and two other girls at the bus stop in jr. high (would do things like knock our books from our arms, smash our lunches, lift up our skirts, punch us in the breasts, and shove a stick into our crotches from behind (called it a "p***y detector"). He was always sneaking up and doing it so no one saw it (like just as I was on the lowest step to the bus and penned in with other kids, and suddenly my lunch would get yanked out of my arms and thrown and I'd have to scramble down and get it. The other girls would scatter out of fear, the other boys would laugh, and I missed the bus several times because I was afraid to stand at the bus stop with him (if enough other kids weren't there). I got in SO MUCH trouble for missing the bus, and yet I didn't tell my parents why. I was mortified about the "detector" thing and worried it would escalate (my dad would talk to his dad or go to the principal) and everyone would know how much he humiliated me.

I saw him at our 20-year reunion. He married the sweetest, goody-goody girl in our class and they have two daughters. I'd like to think he changed, for their sake.

I’m so sorry for your experience.

Anonymous wrote:No. Many cruel people get that way because they are enabled by family and others, and don't change because that enabling continues. There is no guarantee that a mean person will "pay" for their cruelty later in life.

This. I think plenty of people get away with being mean throughout their life. Agree they are enabled by friends/family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is dealing with a bully right now. We are doing everything we can, but they keep getting away with it.


Do you think at some point the chronic "mean kids" get what they deserve? Or are they living a consequence-free existence?

You have to be a miserable s.o.b. to bully people. They already have their comeuppance.

It's a lifestyle and the same mean girls that cheat on their boyfriends and with their 'bestie's' BF are the same ones doing that stuff when married.

Anonymous wrote:My kid is dealing with a bully right now. We are doing everything we can, but they keep getting away with it.


Do you think at some point the chronic "mean kids" get what they deserve? Or are they living a consequence-free existence?

You have to be a miserable s.o.b. to bully people. They already have their comeuppance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here--I don't want the bully to get hurt physically, that's not what I meant. But what if the bully is a girl who spreads rumors and lies about another girl (not my kids' situation), would at some point the bully's friends realize that this person could turn and do the same thing to them at any second, and choose to stop hanging out with her. Or, like a pp said, people confront her about it so she doesn't just get away Scot free. I don't want them to get bullied. I want them to have consequences for their bullying. I said it wrong in my original post.

I am still not understanding why you would care though. And ultimately I’d just wish all kids well and hope they have a nice life.

bullies are insecure or threatened in some way and so it’s best to just remember that and let go.

Op again. Has your kid been bullied? Not just some kid teasing them here and there, but actual bullying? I think then you would understand why it's harder to let go. But I will take your suggestion anyway and do my best to let go. But it is hard when someone is deliberately making your kid miserable

I get it. And for the record I would fully support you addressing the bullying with school or other parents or whatever, with the priority being that your kid deserves a safe space. Bullying sucks. My point is just that the instinct to see someone put in their place is misplaced, and I don’t think it’s ultimately going to be productive for you to generate a lot of negative energy here. I also see kids weather the bullying better when their parents model the high road - it helps the kid feel like ok, there is a way to handle this, and I can get through this.

It is torture to see your kid deal with this kind of thing, that’s for sure. It is normal and fine to be angry. I think it is just unfortunate to let anger make you bitter or petty and that is why I am being insistent.

Some mean kids turn into cool and very successful adults. Some peak after high school or college since they are cool and do drugs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some kids are mean at school because life sucks for them at home.

So what. Some kids from horrible homes are not a-holes.

NP. The whole point of the post is OP hoping that the "mean kids" will feel pain. Some of them are already feeling pain, so that should make OP happy.

Some, not most. Many came from homes where this is entitlement and zero accountability

I'd be fascinated to see the research you have on this, thanks.