I think that all you can do is listen, OP, and it is appropriate to say something like "we've talked about this a few times and it sounds to me like this is really weighing on you, maybe it's time to talk to a professional."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many layers to this.

First, your perception is your reality, but you can influence your perception by stepping back and choosing what to focus on. So she probably could have chosen to see her ex in a more positive light.

But let's assume she's not totally fictionalizing the past and he really did step back and let her do everything. That's pretty common, isn't it? If there's someone around who historically has performed a task, or who seems to like doing it more than we do, or who will do it if we just wait five minutes, then a lot of us will let them, right? But of course, if no one is around, we're not going to just . . . not eat, or whatnot.

And then there's the possible dynamic of a martyr complex. Quite possibly your friend has some entrenched patterns that don't serve her wherein she does things she doesn't need to do and then feels resentful about it. She could trade in the resentment for boundaries, but it's easier to feel outrage than to look closely at one's faults.

Her ex not falling flat on his face is creating cognitive dissonance for her because in her black and white world, she was the competent one and he was the dead weight.

That's just it, I don't think it is. I think it's unusual.

Sorry friend but multiple time-use studies have shown that women do more domestic labor.

Anonymous wrote:I’m 100% sure the DH was not pulling his weight, feigned incompetence to get out of things. Now that he has to do the job he has risen to the task but I’m sure was different in marriage.

+1. Men often step up when they are given no other choices, and also face the cold hard reality of what happens when no one picks up their slack.

Dollars to donuts he "did his best and let her do the rest" while married.

Single parenting is rough. She expected life to get easier when she was free of the dead weight. It's not easier to single parent, just different.

And since the world falls over swooning (like OP) when divorced dads pull 50% of their weight, it's salt in the wound as she's regarded as damaged goods.

I get why your friend is bitter, just saying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 100% sure the DH was not pulling his weight, feigned incompetence to get out of things. Now that he has to do the job he has risen to the task but I’m sure was different in marriage.

+1 Some people only step up when there is no alternative. And I could see from the perspective of OP's friend that seeing him finally step up after divorce when he never did in marriage would be extremely painful. If only he had done so sooner, they might have been able to keep the family together.

However, OP, you suggest this is getting to her to such a degree that he daughter is pulling away now. She has to accept that he was never going to change IN the marriage, even is he was able to outside of the marriage. She needs to let it go, and become her best version of herself for her kids, right now. Or she will lose more than a husband.

Or the dad is permissive and the mom isn't. My kid might choose to live with her dad if we divorced because I'm the nagging shrew who makes sure she keeps her grades up.

Someone is upset that their ex is thriving without them? Cool story bro. Stop judging her and mind your own business. You sound mean.

I know a few cheating women that thought the grass would be greener and their husbands were always at fault.

The ex-husbands are thriving. The women that were hooking during the marriage are very surprised they aren't a commodity now that they are old divorcees with no job.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, as it always is, OP.

My husband spent a decade not lifting a finger for the house or the kids, even when under-employed or out of work. I accumulated deep resentment. I asked him repeatedly to help me. It fell on deaf ears.

Then we had a surprise pregnancy, I became very tired, and all of a sudden, he took over the entire morning routine, taking the dogs out for the morning walk, making lunches, taking kids to the bus stop, driving if the bus doesn't come, and even driving one kid to an evening activity! After 10 years of sloth, I didn't know he had it in him!!!

So... who the heck knows what goes on behind closed doors?! As an outsider, I try not to judge. People can behave unexpectedly. Even people you think you know.

Anonymous wrote:What is the money situation in the houses? Is one of them struggling?

This. Sounds likely that she was a SAHM or WOHM with most of the childcare & domestic responsibilities while he advanced in his career. Now that they’re split his career is ahead and he probably earns more so she is still doing all this stuff for her home and 50% of childcare, while he has higher salary, less anxiety, more financial security and can outsource a lot of things like housecleaning/childcare and still have time to date. She probably also is getting lost in herself while he’s looking on it as a performance, or a competition, and knows that who does better can affect custody going forward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh.That’s pretty common. Your friend should join a group for recently divorced moms so she can have someone to commiserate with.

OP here - but is that healthy? Thinking he was some unsupportive, incompetent boob had a lot to do with getting her to where she is today — is reinforcing that apparent fiction going to anything other than embitter her further? She needs to move on…. Maybe tough love is in order here?

Maybe he was unsupportive and incompetent and then he was forced to grow up.

You really don't sound like a friend.

So what do you propose I tell my friend, who is beside herself that her ex didn't melt down even as she seems to be doing just that?

You just listen to her! What else do you need to say? You tell her that it's going to get better, it will take time, and that you're going to take her out for some nachos in the meantime so she can talk and vent.

I'm glad the kids have one parent with his stuff together. Because your friend doesn't sound like she does.

Her reasons for divorcing don't matter now. I'd point her to therapy anytime she brings it up. If she refuses, I'd take a few healthy steps back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of this post?

OP — I was pretty clear that I was seeking some advice on what to tell my friend. Do we not do that here? Why would you ask this?

You probably don't need to tell her anything. People go through some stuff when they get divorced. One of my friends from HS was so angry and bitter for about five years after his divorce - including stuff like this; being flabbergasted and outraged that his ex was doing fine - and then, with therapy and time, he got past it Now he's in a new relationship where he's thriving, his kids are great, he seems great. Divorce can be very traumatic, and I think especially if the other person doesn't get what you think they "deserve" - i.e., to fall apart, be miserable, etc.

Just be her friend, when you need to talk about something else, talk about something else. She doesn't need you to ratify or contradict her feelings here.

Play stupid games…

NP. I am also convinced OP is writing about his ex-W. Same aggrieved, aggressive writing style as a recently divorced guy on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:There are many layers to this.

First, your perception is your reality, but you can influence your perception by stepping back and choosing what to focus on. So she probably could have chosen to see her ex in a more positive light.

But let's assume she's not totally fictionalizing the past and he really did step back and let her do everything. That's pretty common, isn't it? If there's someone around who historically has performed a task, or who seems to like doing it more than we do, or who will do it if we just wait five minutes, then a lot of us will let them, right? But of course, if no one is around, we're not going to just . . . not eat, or whatnot.

And then there's the possible dynamic of a martyr complex. Quite possibly your friend has some entrenched patterns that don't serve her wherein she does things she doesn't need to do and then feels resentful about it. She could trade in the resentment for boundaries, but it's easier to feel outrage than to look closely at one's faults.

Her ex not falling flat on his face is creating cognitive dissonance for her because in her black and white world, she was the competent one and he was the dead weight.

That's just it, I don't think it is. I think it's unusual.

There are many layers to this.

First, your perception is your reality, but you can influence your perception by stepping back and choosing what to focus on. So she probably could have chosen to see her ex in a more positive light.

But let's assume she's not totally fictionalizing the past and he really did step back and let her do everything. That's pretty common, isn't it? If there's someone around who historically has performed a task, or who seems to like doing it more than we do, or who will do it if we just wait five minutes, then a lot of us will let them, right? But of course, if no one is around, we're not going to just . . . not eat, or whatnot.

And then there's the possible dynamic of a martyr complex. Quite possibly your friend has some entrenched patterns that don't serve her wherein she does things she doesn't need to do and then feels resentful about it. She could trade in the resentment for boundaries, but it's easier to feel outrage than to look closely at one's faults.

Her ex not falling flat on his face is creating cognitive dissonance for her because in her black and white world, she was the competent one and he was the dead weight.