Is this UVA?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

He was fully prepared for that kind of thing. No this is forced eating of horrible stuff with vomit of 40 guys for hours ensuing that were allowed only the floor to do so then “activities” in the vomit. Literally all day everyone yelling at you you’re a piece of shit, etc. yes stupid stuff like driving he could care less about that. He actually believes one guy is psychotic/sociopath. It’s 7 weeks. Severe, dangerous sleep deprivation. 10 guys left after first night. I want him to quit but has to come from him. We’d wholeheartedly support him and he has the confidence to quit. He is well- liked, has a lot of friends, a girlfriend, has a good future ahead of him

The comment about, if he stays, doing this to others was something we talked about last night. He’s worried about that. He also said he’s “mentally tough” but I reminded him none of us know where are breaking point may be.

I can see that. And then others may tend to follow his lead bc they are hesitant to speak up. Only takes one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

Why is "technically hazing a part of the deal"? that's the issue!!! It should not be. It's stupid, dangerous and ends up killing/injuring kids each year

Picking up trash and being a DD is not stupid and dangerous, in fact being a DD is a positive thing.

My ds has told me about MUCH MUCH worse that his roommate had to endure. Dangerous physical risks. NP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

He was fully prepared for that kind of thing. No this is forced eating of horrible stuff with vomit of 40 guys for hours ensuing that were allowed only the floor to do so then “activities” in the vomit. Literally all day everyone yelling at you you’re a piece of shit, etc. yes stupid stuff like driving he could care less about that. He actually believes one guy is psychotic/sociopath. It’s 7 weeks. Severe, dangerous sleep deprivation. 10 guys left after first night. I want him to quit but has to come from him. We’d wholeheartedly support him and he has the confidence to quit. He is well- liked, has a lot of friends, a girlfriend, has a good future ahead of him

The comment about, if he stays, doing this to others was something we talked about last night. He’s worried about that. He also said he’s “mentally tough” but I reminded him none of us know where are breaking point may be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

Why is "technically hazing a part of the deal"? that's the issue!!! It should not be. It's stupid, dangerous and ends up killing/injuring kids each year

Picking up trash and being a DD is not stupid and dangerous, in fact being a DD is a positive thing.

I still think we need to know more of what it is. For me, I was "hazed" by being told we couldn't drink Sunday - Thursdays and had to have sober/cleanup duty at all parties. We were forced to learn about our fraternities history and have weekly philosophical studies. We lost sundays by going on group field trips to battlefields and other historical sights. We had to pass a test. We had an overnight initiation. Hazing can mean different things and I would need to know more before advising.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Contrary to many other posts, there's really no way anyone can advise you on a course of action without knowing what "pretty bad" means.

Agree, if the pledge is uncomfortable and in danger, report and drop. If the kid is just pissed for having to clean up the house after a party or drive a drunk brother home (the right thing to do) than a whole other story...technically "hazing" but part of the deal and if it bothers him than a fraternity probably is not for him.

Why is "technically hazing a part of the deal"? that's the issue!!! It should not be. It's stupid, dangerous and ends up killing/injuring kids each year

Are you prepared to help him with legal fees down the road if something goes terribly wrong?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s an adult (presumably) and can make his own choices. Land the helicopter.

This is not a helicopter situation. Their frontal lobes are still developing. We had a nephew end up in a coma. This is still a parenting moment.

OP - Definitely talk with him about the values of this fraternity and joining means he will have to subject others to these actions. I hope that makes an impact.

+1000

The fact he's telling mom/dad about it means he's concerned and does NOT know how to respond. Peer pressure is huge, especially at college freshman year who you are trying to navigate a new social life. He's asking for help and it's your job as a parent to advise him and help him make the correct choice

I think it's really hard at that age to walk away bc you feel like you won't have any other friends and you spent time making these friends, etc. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it though.

At that age, we think everything is monumental and don't realize that saying no, or saying blowing off something stupid is going to be the end all be all of someone else's life. Sure there will always be that one person who will go overboard when someone responds to them like that but that just makes it easier to spot the ones with serious mental health issues.

Anonymous wrote:Physical hazing or property damage? Both are bad but for me there’s a huge difference.

If it’s anything physical or humiliating, I wouldn't sugarcoat. Tell him there’s a trend in kids secretly recording these rites and to imagine the world watching a tape of him forcing this on others next year. Having his future ruined and family embarrassed may motivate him if the moral qualms aren’t enough.

You might also tell him that half of his future dating pool won’t touch a frat guy who hazed others with a ten foot pole.

If he's already enjoying mixers, the dating pool argument will fall pretty flat

Someone posted anonymously on the fp parents group of dc's college this week that she was hearing bad things about her ds's pledging experiences. Not many responses but the ones who did told her basically to STFU or her kid will pay.

I mean.

Physical hazing or property damage? Both are bad but for me there’s a huge difference.

If it’s anything physical or humiliating, I wouldn't sugarcoat. Tell him there’s a trend in kids secretly recording these rites and to imagine the world watching a tape of him forcing this on others next year. Having his future ruined and family embarrassed may motivate him if the moral qualms aren’t enough.

You might also tell him that half of his future dating pool won’t touch a frat guy who hazed others with a ten foot pole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The drinking on campuses is so much worse than it was back in the day. Also, the craft beers these kids are drinking (when they aren't drinking hard alcohol) have a vastly higher alcohol content than the Milwaukee Best and Coors light people chugged back in the 80s/90s.

I really am pushing the schools known for little to no greek life and non-party atmosphere (or mild)---like the Hopkins and smaller liberal arts schools out there for my sons.

I have heard some horror stores from other parents lately.

Someone posted a recent doc on frat hazing which I can't find the link.

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/documentaries/hazingfilm/

This one?

Thank you. Yes! I wanted to make my high school sons watch it with us.

Anonymous wrote:The drinking on campuses is so much worse than it was back in the day. Also, the craft beers these kids are drinking (when they aren't drinking hard alcohol) have a vastly higher alcohol content than the Milwaukee Best and Coors light people chugged back in the 80s/90s.

I really am pushing the schools known for little to no greek life and non-party atmosphere (or mild)---like the Hopkins and smaller liberal arts schools out there for my sons.

I have heard some horror stores from other parents lately.

Someone posted a recent doc on frat hazing which I can't find the link.

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/documentaries/hazingfilm/

This one?