Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Not true.

My cousin (Yale history major, Harvard MBA) is on his 5th VC-backed pre-iPO startup as Head of Enterprise Sales and Biz Dev over the last 20 years.
True he doesn’t bother with his pedigree pitch at all, but is very good with people and a problem solver. He has his pick of job offers every time a company exits, his wife is a lawyer and law professor and both have time to coach their kids’ sports. Never hear a bad word about him and I get called out for the same last name as him in my industry all the time.

And yes, he understands the tech and deep stack and customer very well. I won’t even tell you what kind of 5-year employment terms he can command.

He came from money so I’m sure a lot of this was deep networking.

Plebs don’t major in history at Yale.

Anonymous wrote:They’re just like people in advertising: they’ve been taught to lie and they have no problems with lying to people on a regular basis.

I open yours not this syndicalism and incorrect with all people in your life you come across.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally disagree with the title of this thread. the same can be said for any occupation or profession.

Without salespeople, there would be no administrative, manufacturing, or transportation jobs, etc.

And I agree with you. Sleezebags are everywhere, in every profession/occupation. Sometimes they happen to clump. And just about everything involves an element of "sales."

I like lobbyists! The ultimate salespeople!

The promise of them selling you that they can sell the Hill to legislate things to your advantage is such tangible value creation!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Not true.

My cousin (Yale history major, Harvard MBA) is on his 5th VC-backed pre-iPO startup as Head of Enterprise Sales and Biz Dev over the last 20 years.
True he doesn’t bother with his pedigree pitch at all, but is very good with people and a problem solver. He has his pick of job offers every time a company exits, his wife is a lawyer and law professor and both have time to coach their kids’ sports. Never hear a bad word about him and I get called out for the same last name as him in my industry all the time.

And yes, he understands the tech and deep stack and customer very well. I won’t even tell you what kind of 5-year employment terms he can command.

Sales is for people that don’t need an organization to survive. Probably the most adaptable humans

Anonymous wrote:It's one of the few skills that matches the skill set of ex cons and other dregs of society. The local car dealership is a jobs program recommended by probation officers, for example. The sleaze bag type can also go door to door selling solar leases that make no sense and deal with angry residents because they don't care.

Like how all the $$ million dollar Marijuana sales licenses go to ex-cons as reparations, defund the police, and free job program social justice! Sell sell sell!

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. There is the rare 1 or 2 who have some sense of morals but the rest…scary. Do these people change in the role or does the role attract a certain type?

Here’s a fun fact: every job after age 30 that pays you money is actual sales. Sales of a service, a product, or your skills. You are always selling.

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. There is the rare 1 or 2 who have some sense of morals but the rest…scary. Do these people change in the role or does the role attract a certain type?

What kind of sales?

Not the case in med devices sales to Chief Medical officers or CFOs or enterprise software sales to CTOs/CFOs.

I think any POTENTIAL sleezeball factor is when selling to retail customer, end consumer like you.
Scans, stereotypical used car salesman, aggressive tactics, weird loans to buy. They probably rely on suckers for half their sales.

But IBM selling systems and solutions to JPMOrgan involves 9-12 mos of demos to beginners, pitching and negotiating with senior committee and lawyers, and subscriber type service contracts for years and years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Over-generalization and not true. - Ivy-Educated (gasp) software salesperson who loves my job

PP here. I sell SAAS (software as a service, so: software, specifically education technology software) products and earn $300k/year. I work 8:30am-6pm, so relatively traditional corporate hours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks are academically weak and need some way to make money.

A good salesman out earns most people with more impressive degrees. Even in fields with professional degrees, rainmaker big law partners are really just salesmen. The difference between a great doctor and a regular doctor usually comes down less to skill and more to their ability to sell themselves as a great doctor. I can't think of any field where this doesn't apply, even the best engineers who form start ups are successful in raising VC because they can sell themselves and their ideas.

Brings up another point - to sales, jobs are 100% about money. That's why academically strong people look down on them. Salespeople can't and don't want to understand the products they're selling at a deep level, nor understand contract terms. Just pump and sell.

Over-generalization and not true. - Ivy-Educated (gasp) software salesperson who loves my job

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give me some examples of sales? I conceptually get it but it’s not an industry I know anything about.

There is no one answer and roles are diverse as any random two jobs you can thing of.

There are people that do door to door sales.
There are people that sell SAAS through a variety of means and methods. Some are trying to sell a low price subscription that could be $10/month so volume is key. Some are selling a very customized solution that could be a several million The process and sales conversations are going to be very different in this two scenarios. As will the compensation.

Take building materials sales at a lumber yard. Some of the people that sell in this situation are basically order takers, guiding customers to lengths and dimension that will for the most part get them what they what them what they need with out a lot of back forth. Under the same roof you could have an outside sales person, that is highly technically trained, keeps up with latest technologies, standards and best practices. They are typically building relationships with builders and remodelers, architects and designers, etc. Many people in the first group make $60-120k. The range in the second group can be $80k - a couple mil a year.

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give me some examples of sales? I conceptually get it but it’s not an industry I know anything about.

I don’t know if it’s an industry per se as sales is a necessary function of most (private sector) businesses in some way shape or form. One outlier on the professional service side may be medicine, not sure if doctors have a business development responsibilities but law, consulting partners all have a sales responsibility. Any product industry obviously sales is key.

Real estate comes to mind, although obviously there are administrative positions, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

Fair enough, but some sales is unethical, like pharmaceutical sales. That's where the sleaze is.

If we really dig into it, all sales is unethical, since they're trying to convince you to buy something you don't need. If you truly needed it, you wouldn't need their convincing, you'd go buy the item in question.

I am in sales. I make a lot of money. I sell B2B and B2C. I make zero cold calls and conduct almost zero outreach, it is all responding to customer requests from website. Customer’s have choices, I provide information to help they make a decision. Always honest.

I don’t say anything that is not true, don’t make ambiguous or unethical claims, don’t knock the competition. Do you know why I don’t do any of these things? They just cause headaches and more work later on that keep me from selling more. Also my customers are my biggest sales team. If they are happy they tell people they are happy and those people buy from me.

There are sleazy people in every industry and there are great people in every industry.

Blanket statements that stereotype are a sign of of ignorance.

Says the dude making 2 blanket statements in a row? Good for you and all, but you're trying to "sell" your job and you as a salesman to me right now.

So what is wrong with me being sales? I don’t need to sell you my job. I am in this career to benefit my family and my life. I make great money, work maybe 2-3 hours a day. Get to drop off an pick my kid up from school, have lunch with my wife whenever I want. Those are things I am thankful that my career provides meZ. It also provides me the opportunity to say to rude customers, I think you would be happier working with one of our competitors. Or if they cross a professional boundary I can literally tell say to them whatever before saying, any deposits you have mad will be promptly refunded, please never contact me again and hang up. Basically, I don’t have to put up with BS and/or office politics that a lot of other people do.

Can someone give me some examples of sales? I conceptually get it but it’s not an industry I know anything about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just laugh at the people who think there is some imaginary "intelligence" boundary between those who have the capacity to build a compelling narrative and those who do not.

It's just a lie people with bad personalities tell themselves to feel better.

Any high level job or leadership position requires the ability to sell - themselves, their company, an idea, or a product.

Fair enough, but some sales is unethical, like pharmaceutical sales. That's where the sleaze is.

If we really dig into it, all sales is unethical, since they're trying to convince you to buy something you don't need. If you truly needed it, you wouldn't need their convincing, you'd go buy the item in question.

I am in sales. I make a lot of money. I sell B2B and B2C. I make zero cold calls and conduct almost zero outreach, it is all responding to customer requests from website. Customer’s have choices, I provide information to help they make a decision. Always honest.

I don’t say anything that is not true, don’t make ambiguous or unethical claims, don’t knock the competition. Do you know why I don’t do any of these things? They just cause headaches and more work later on that keep me from selling more. Also my customers are my biggest sales team. If they are happy they tell people they are happy and those people buy from me.

There are sleazy people in every industry and there are great people in every industry.

Blanket statements that stereotype are a sign of of ignorance.

Says the dude making 2 blanket statements in a row? Good for you and all, but you're trying to "sell" your job and you as a salesman to me right now.