Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update.

As those who were skeptical that MCPS would do anything guessed, the shitshow has continued. Despite promising to "separate" my daughter from the offending child, this little girl has continued her reign of terror against my DD (and also in disrupting the class TBH). Whatever disciplinary steps they took with this little girl have utterly failed and she is not deterred.

The teacher is more responsive and of course continues to apologize that my daughter is experiencing this. I'm awaiting an update on "next steps" from the teacher and principal at the moment. But MCPS is not serious about the safety and wellbeing of its students.

Can you describe the reign of terror? If she physically striking your child? If so, is it happening in class, on the playground, etc.? My son had a bully situation where he was repeatedly punched in the stomach and knocked down by the other boy. We had a note put in his file that he was never to be put in the same class with the boy again, and they never were -- for another 5 years. So that's an easy thing for them to do. They also had additional folks on the playground for a while to monitor them, but I don't know how long that lasted, My son basically learned to keep his distance from this other boy (and 8 years later, he still does!).

I don't personally support expulsion or even long suspensions of kids this age -- it really isn't effective. But the school can and should do things to assist with the physical safety of your child. Stop focusing on what they are doing to the other child, and start focusing on what they should be doing FOR your child. You'll get a lot less resistance if you switch your focus. If the assistant principal needs to sit in the room for a few weeks to separate them, maybe that's the solution.

OP, our DS was full on assaulted, caught on cameras, ran to the bus and not a single adult intervened because it was Friday dismissal and everyone was packing their bags to jet out of the building. Unfortunately, we had to contact the police to document the assault and they encouraged us to file for a Peace Order. Victim and assailant have to appear in court and the judge decides the issue. The judge was as kind as could be to our DS, and gave a stern speech to the other families. With this, and only this, we were able to separate our DS from the aggressors for 1 year. Fill out a bullying with each incidence and reach out to the MCPS security office to ask for guidance. Just create a lot of noise and plenty of paper trails. Don't wait for the school to lead the process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an incredibly common and normal policy. It is also true in the vast majority of workplaces.

If your kid gets in a fight with another child at the playground, is the other parent entitled to demand that you tell them the consequences/punishment you imposed?
If a coworker insults/bullies you in the workplace, are you entitled to know exactly what consequences were imposed?

No. Because the real world doesn't operate that way. It is the responsibility if the organization to create and keep a safe environment. Nobody that was the "victim" needs to know how they do that, just that the environment is safe.

In the real world, if I commit a crime, the punishment is not kept a secret.

Also, I have no idea how you assure the victim the environment is safe without detailing the consequences for those violate the rules of said environment. Why should you believe them?

If minors commit crimes, the record is confidential.

With education, there are additional federal laws about keeping records confidential. Suspensions, expulsions, and school transfers will be known to others because the child is no longer in the school. Anything else is confidential.

If the only thing that makes a child follow rules and do the right thing is fear of consequences, we have a sorry world.

The main reason for wanting to know other kids' punishments is so parents can gossip IMHO.

The main reason is so families can have some assurance that their own children are in a safe environment that is most conducive to learning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an incredibly common and normal policy. It is also true in the vast majority of workplaces.

If your kid gets in a fight with another child at the playground, is the other parent entitled to demand that you tell them the consequences/punishment you imposed?
If a coworker insults/bullies you in the workplace, are you entitled to know exactly what consequences were imposed?

No. Because the real world doesn't operate that way. It is the responsibility if the organization to create and keep a safe environment. Nobody that was the "victim" needs to know how they do that, just that the environment is safe.

In the real world, if I commit a crime, the punishment is not kept a secret.

Also, I have no idea how you assure the victim the environment is safe without detailing the consequences for those violate the rules of said environment. Why should you believe them?

If minors commit crimes, the record is confidential.


With education, there are additional federal laws about keeping records confidential. Suspensions, expulsions, and school transfers will be known to others because the child is no longer in the school. Anything else is confidential.

If the only thing that makes a child follow rules and do the right thing is fear of consequences, we have a sorry world.

The main reason for wanting to know other kids' punishments is so parents can gossip IMHO.

Not even close. If students don’t think there are consequences they have no incentive to obey rules.

Anonymous wrote:OP here with an update.

As those who were skeptical that MCPS would do anything guessed, the shitshow has continued. Despite promising to "separate" my daughter from the offending child, this little girl has continued her reign of terror against my DD (and also in disrupting the class TBH). Whatever disciplinary steps they took with this little girl have utterly failed and she is not deterred.

The teacher is more responsive and of course continues to apologize that my daughter is experiencing this. I'm awaiting an update on "next steps" from the teacher and principal at the moment. But MCPS is not serious about the safety and wellbeing of its students.

Or its teachers!

The lack of discipline in MCPS is a huge issue. Your kid is not the only one suffering, OP.

OP here with an update.

As those who were skeptical that MCPS would do anything guessed, the shitshow has continued. Despite promising to "separate" my daughter from the offending child, this little girl has continued her reign of terror against my DD (and also in disrupting the class TBH). Whatever disciplinary steps they took with this little girl have utterly failed and she is not deterred.

The teacher is more responsive and of course continues to apologize that my daughter is experiencing this. I'm awaiting an update on "next steps" from the teacher and principal at the moment. But MCPS is not serious about the safety and wellbeing of its students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is because of privacy issues but I agree that there is some degree to which the privacy is counterproductive. My DD had significant conflict with a boy in her class last year and her perception was that there were no consequences to the boy for his behavior, which just made my DD feel like the school wasn't protecting her. Had they been able to tell her some of what they were doing, she would have at least felt like they were trying.

It is similar to how the school will call to tell you about an incident with another child but not tell you who the other child is. My kids are older now and can tell me, but in most cases by time you get to upper elementary school, the identity of the other child really matters to the context of what happened. If the school isn't going to tell me the full story, don't bother calling me.

OP here. Yes, my daughter basically believes there's no consequence for bad behavior at the school, which is heartbreaking. I asked her why she didn't tell her teacher about the incident, she said "They don't do anything about it."

I'm not expecting the discipline of the offending child to be printed on posterboard and hung in the hallways, but for the two parties involved, the victim and the offender, being transparent about the outcomes and consequences provides closure. Which is very needed for holistic and effective conflict resolution.

Instead, you get hand wavy, "The environment is safe" mumbo jumbo with no specifics that no one, not the kids or the parents, really believe.

OP I say this with the best intentions and no snark: Consider this an opportunity for your daughter to learn about how the world actually operates, as opposed to trying to change your child's immediate environment in a way that is not preparing her for the real world. Talk to her about only being able to control yourself and not others, to use her voice to speak up when she is wronged and take steps to correct. Try to redirect attention away from thinking about retribution/consequences/discipline for others.

Wow. So, if OP's daughter is assaulted, or touched inappropriately in school, this is the main message you want to send?

Sounds like the OP's daughter did use her voice to speak up. The OP is asking, now that her daughter has spoken up, what is going to be done about it? And, what can she tell her daughter is being done about it.

Even if you don't want OP to focus on retribution/consequences, the school should be able to provide a plan going forward as to what will happen the next time such an incident occurs.

I’m just weighing in because I came upon this thread while looking for ideas on how other jurisdictions handle these types of issues. We are having what sound like similar issues in our school, and we also have the sense that nothing is done. We’ve been working with our child along the lines of what some of you have suggested. And we understand that in theory, yes, you can’t control others. But after a year of this, all that has happened is that our child has stopped liking school, and keeps asking why nothing happens to the kids who act out, disrupt class, and bully or yes, even physically hurt other kids. Our kid has said in so many words that there’s no point in looking to the adults for help because they don’t care and don’t do anything. The whole thing has been extremely depressing to watch. I went to public school myself and was a strong advocate. This whole experience however has really been a challenge. I don’t know what the answer is. But the status quo that we have experienced is not it I’m pretty sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an incredibly common and normal policy. It is also true in the vast majority of workplaces.

If your kid gets in a fight with another child at the playground, is the other parent entitled to demand that you tell them the consequences/punishment you imposed?
If a coworker insults/bullies you in the workplace, are you entitled to know exactly what consequences were imposed?

No. Because the real world doesn't operate that way. It is the responsibility if the organization to create and keep a safe environment. Nobody that was the "victim" needs to know how they do that, just that the environment is safe.

In the real world, if I commit a crime, the punishment is not kept a secret.

Also, I have no idea how you assure the victim the environment is safe without detailing the consequences for those violate the rules of said environment. Why should you believe them?

If minors commit crimes, the record is confidential.

With education, there are additional federal laws about keeping records confidential. Suspensions, expulsions, and school transfers will be known to others because the child is no longer in the school. Anything else is confidential.

If the only thing that makes a child follow rules and do the right thing is fear of consequences, we have a sorry world.

The main reason for wanting to know other kids' punishments is so parents can gossip IMHO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, it's not "MCPS" policy. It's a federal law, signed into law by Gerald Ford in 1974. The more you know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Educational_Rights_and_Privacy_Act

OP here. The teacher specifically said, "per MCPS policy" in the email communication we had. Which is why I asked. Re-read the original post before assuming what I do or don't know.

It is MCPS policy to follow federal education laws.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After a vague response from the teacher on behalf of the admin team who said they were talking with the girl's family and that the teacher would try to keep the offending girl away from my daughter, I found out that the girl punched my daughter in the back during math.

So as I feared, the discipline or whatever consequences MCPS is engaging with the girl and her family are utterly failing and my daughter continues to be a punching bag for this kid who they keep in the classroom. I don't understand why this is acceptable to MCPS.

Ask for a class change. There isn't much they can do.

OP here. I should ask to move my daughter? She likes her class and she's with her cousin. They should move the offending kid.

Never happens. Unfortunately. You can move your daughter, but the offending kid will never get moved. Restorative justice and all. MCPS prefers to support the offending kid more than the victim. (Also, sometimes depends on the races of the kid involved.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I a terrible person if I suggest saying "then next time that child touches you / hits you, you have my blessing to hit back twice as hard. You might get in trouble at school, but I will have your back and it is highly likely that this child will never bother you again."

NEver mind--I know I'm a terrible person. But I'm practical.

This is what we've told our kids, lol.

I told my kid the same also. Never hit first. But if someone touches you (especially my DD), you are welcome to hit them back.

Anonymous wrote:Am I a terrible person if I suggest saying "then next time that child touches you / hits you, you have my blessing to hit back twice as hard. You might get in trouble at school, but I will have your back and it is highly likely that this child will never bother you again."

NEver mind--I know I'm a terrible person. But I'm practical.

This is what we've told our kids, lol.

Anonymous wrote:Um, it's not "MCPS" policy. It's a federal law, signed into law by Gerald Ford in 1974. The more you know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Educational_Rights_and_Privacy_Act

OP here. The teacher specifically said, "per MCPS policy" in the email communication we had. Which is why I asked. Re-read the original post before assuming what I do or don't know.

Anonymous wrote:Am I a terrible person if I suggest saying "then next time that child touches you / hits you, you have my blessing to hit back twice as hard. You might get in trouble at school, but I will have your back and it is highly likely that this child will never bother you again."

NEver mind--I know I'm a terrible person. But I'm practical.

PS Also sign your kid up for self-defense classes.

Am I a terrible person if I suggest saying "then next time that child touches you / hits you, you have my blessing to hit back twice as hard. You might get in trouble at school, but I will have your back and it is highly likely that this child will never bother you again."

NEver mind--I know I'm a terrible person. But I'm practical.