Anonymous wrote:4/5.

I’ve worked with kids from 3-7 for almost twenty years and I see the behavior start in Pre-K/Kindergarten.

It’s when I’ll see kids go from impulsively being unkind (getting frustrated and hitting, calling someone a name) to true mean, manipulative behavior with the intent on hurting their peers. Excluding certain children in order to make them feel bad, finding a child’s weakness or sensitivity and attacking it in order to hurt them. When I see the intention behind the behavior, I consider that “mean girl” behavior although boys can exhibit this too, but it is mostly girls.

And 9/10 times it comes directly from the parents. We had this incredibly snotty, arrogant, mean mother who would make sarcastic, classist mean girl remarks to other mothers and staff but somehow managed to be well-liked in her circle. Her kid was 4 when she started exhibiting the exact same behaviors. Excluding kids based on perceived social status, clothing, etc. Being incredibly cruel to kids that were clearly struggling, “you are ugly and stupid” but always said in what they assume out or an adults earshot. When approached about it, they would dawn and butter up adults or any authority figure. At 4 already figuring out how to be sneaky enough to torment some kids but be a little teachers pet with adults. Really disheartening.

Anonymous wrote:4/5.

I’ve worked with kids from 3-7 for almost twenty years and I see the behavior start in Pre-K/Kindergarten.

It’s when I’ll see kids go from impulsively being unkind (getting frustrated and hitting, calling someone a name) to true mean, manipulative behavior with the intent on hurting their peers. Excluding certain children in order to make them feel bad, finding a child’s weakness or sensitivity and attacking it in order to hurt them. When I see the intention behind the behavior, I consider that “mean girl” behavior although boys can exhibit this too, but it is mostly girls.

And 9/10 times it comes directly from the parents. We had this incredibly snotty, arrogant, mean mother who would make sarcastic, classist mean girl remarks to other mothers and staff but somehow managed to be well-liked in her circle. Her kid was 4 when she started exhibiting the exact same behaviors. Excluding kids based on perceived social status, clothing, etc. Being incredibly cruel to kids that were clearly struggling, “you are ugly and stupid” but always said in what they assume out or an adults earshot. When approached about it, they would dawn and butter up adults or any authority figure. At 4 already figuring out how to be sneaky enough to torment some kids but be a little teachers pet with adults. Really disheartening.

Anonymous wrote: And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

I don’t understand why twin day exists. For kids with a best buddy, they could dress the same whenever they wanted. For kids without one, it’s very stressful. Every year I’m like “why is this a thing? What does it have to do with school spirit?” I don’t get it.

My oldest is now a teenager. In all the years they had twin day, I think he participated once. I knew his friend had the same Minecraft sweatshirt and they wore the same shirt on twin day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

I don’t understand why twin day exists. For kids with a best buddy, they could dress the same whenever they wanted. For kids without one, it’s very stressful. Every year I’m like “why is this a thing? What does it have to do with school spirit?” I don’t get it.

Anonymous wrote:Stop using the term "mean girl". It is misogynistic. Girls are not uniquely mean. Girls who are mean are mean to other girls because it is their peer group. They are also mean to boys but less so because we have then socialized to defer to the boys. Last I checked the girls lacrosse team never raped a team mate with a broom handle. People are sometimes mean. Some of them are girls and some of them are girls.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

And another thing: boy, do I hate twin day. I had a "best friend" as a little girl, so it is not a bad association for me personally. But I despise the desperate scramble every time there is a twin day at school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually have an Evite ready to go inviting the full class. My daughter was pretty clear she didn’t want to invite a girl who clearly told her she wasn’t her friend. My daughter doesn’t want to invite this girl.

When we get a whole-class birthday invite, I ask my kid "Do you like this kid? Is he your friend, and do you want to go to his party?" Nobody wants to go to a party celebrating somebody they hate. That solves a lot of the issue. Maybe explain to your kid this is how it works, and as a rule we do not do exclusion. The guest can simply decline the invitation. This is not like school where the kids are forced to show up.

If she really needs to omit one person, then come up with a different group, not the whole class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so just a note that this stuff happen with boys, but everyone is so quick to label it "mean girl" that it often gets ignored.

Kids are sometimes jerks. Please don't boil this down to queen bee nonsense. It *COULD* be that, but it most likely is a 5/6 year old kid feeling overwhelmed at school.

Does your DD have friends who do enjoy her? Great, focus on them. Have a smaller party without the mean girl (but not everyone BUT her) and just help support your DD having friends.

I know what you are going for here, but I will politely disagree. The exclusion stuff does not happen with boys at this age, at least not as frequently. Boys in early elementary tend to do a lot of group play and there is way less focus on "best friends", which just means there are fewer opportunities to exclude or to compete over friends. It can happen some, but usually the solution is "let's just all play together" and except in rare instances, that's the end of it. Girls do more 1:1 play. Also, it's hard to say whether the best friend thing is something the kids push or parents push on them, but it's definitely real. My DD's K class had three sets of "best friends" -- their parents did lots of 1:1 playdates, they would dress alike on twin day, they gravitated towards each other during all free play times. It was really hard on the other girls (my DD included) because it's like it just eliminates friend options for them because all the girls are "taken".

And I totally agree with PPs that when you see overt exclusion or teasing, it's almost always from kids with older siblings -- they are mimicking their sibling. Who is often in 2nd/3rd/4th grade and absolutely is in the thick of these mean girl behaviors. They don't "feel overwhelmed" -- they are imitating learned behaviors that are negative and socially unkind.

I would never write off a kid for any of this stuff (in K or in older grades). Like I said -- learned behaviors. But I also wouldn't write off the behavior. Mean girl dynamics are real and we have to address them. Because you know what is overwhelming at school? Having no friends because one or two girls told everyone else you're "weird". Or developing friendships and then being told you aren't allowed to have those friends anymore because another girl says so. This stuff happens constantly among girls, not boys. We have to actually address it and not pretend it isn't happening or that boys and girls are having the same experiences. They aren't.

+10000. Have 2 older boys and a toddler girl, and am already seeing vastly different friendship behaviors among the girl cohort in preschool.

Anonymous wrote:I actually have an Evite ready to go inviting the full class. My daughter was pretty clear she didn’t want to invite a girl who clearly told her she wasn’t her friend. My daughter doesn’t want to invite this girl.