My high school started at 7:30 and it sucked. I was an excellent student but I had a hard time staying awake in class.

I know a lot of districts around the country no longer do this, as I had thought the question of circadian rhythms was largely settled science.

My kids are young now and I see the same science used to advocate for kids as old as age 7/8 going to bed by 8:30. (I know not everyone accomplishes this, but in general there is research to back up the idea that earlier is better for little kids.)

We recently moved to MoCo and since I'm about to have a baby and will be staying at home, I'm rather pleased I won't have to scramble out the door to get my kindergartener to school at the crack of dawn. BUT I agree with those who feel this is backward in general. It will work for my family but the 3:50 elementary school dismissal time also really kills the afternoon for littles who need to eat dinner earlier and go to bed earlier.

MCPS has always been this early.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Mine (who slept til 11:30 today) adjusted fine, as did I as a teenager. Woke up in the dark every morning, even earlier than necessary, to have enough time to do my hair. Not ideal, but we’re all doing just fine.

No, they are tired and yes, it is not ideal. You contradicted yourself bc you know it needs to be later and you admit your kids slept till 11:30. Your time to fo your hair does not correlate to a study in the biology of teen sleep patterns.

I was only pointing out that though her body might want to sleep til 11:30, she does fine when forced to wake up much earlier. She doesn’t get home til nearly 5 pm most days. She’s cheerful and doing well in school. Her phone shuts off at 9 pm, so if yours are having trouble, maybe try that.

My kid isn’t using her phone after 9pm, is getting straight A’s in a magnet program, and has to be out the door by 6:35 to catch her bus. She’s cheerful most hours out of the day…but not from 6-8:00am. By Friday nights she’s a zombie. If we have special weekend plans that prevent her from getting caught up on her sleep, the next week is really tough. She’s physically and mentally healthy, doing well in school, and has a happy social life, but she’s tired. Is the early start time going to break her? No, she’ll survive it like we did. But is it fine? No, it’s not. A later start time would be better. It may not be feasible, but it would be better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC parent here. Curious how this is for your teens. We are unhappy parents at a DC public school considering moving. The start time for DCPS High Schools is 9am which is one of the only things they do that is smart. How are your kids' sleep habits with such an early start. Most research points to the reverse schedule for (older kids need to start later) and curious why MCPS is set up like this. Not sure if this issue has come up before or if they are considering changing it?

MCPS Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

The teens will be fine. Mlionsnof teens who went to school early are fine. MoCo looked at this already, and changed the time of HS start by 20 minutes. They cannot move them any more.

Yous are not the only teens out there. MANY teens in the county watch/babysit younger siblings after ES while their parents work. MANY teens work after school to support their families. And many other reasons. They aren't going to change it to start later

They’re not fine, but we have no other options, so we’ll keep limping along.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Its funny how the need to be at a job just a few years later makes it ok.

How many people have to be at work at 7:45 AM 5 days a week?

Many in the transportation industry starts earlier than that. That includes your Drivers, conductors, mechanics, station managers, track repair staff, managers, and more. The. There are those in all sectors of health care, those in construction, those in the trades, those who deliver your Amazon packages, and so many more. 7:45 really isn’t that early for the working world.

I’m a teacher and I have to be at school at 7:30 everyday.

Anonymous wrote:DC parent here. Curious how this is for your teens. We are unhappy parents at a DC public school considering moving. The start time for DCPS High Schools is 9am which is one of the only things they do that is smart. How are your kids' sleep habits with such an early start. Most research points to the reverse schedule for (older kids need to start later) and curious why MCPS is set up like this. Not sure if this issue has come up before or if they are considering changing it?

MCPS Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

The teens will be fine. Mlionsnof teens who went to school early are fine. MoCo looked at this already, and changed the time of HS start by 20 minutes. They cannot move them any more.

Yous are not the only teens out there. MANY teens in the county watch/babysit younger siblings after ES while their parents work. MANY teens work after school to support their families. And many other reasons. They aren't going to change it to start later

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Mine (who slept til 11:30 today) adjusted fine, as did I as a teenager. Woke up in the dark every morning, even earlier than necessary, to have enough time to do my hair. Not ideal, but we’re all doing just fine.

No, they are tired and yes, it is not ideal. You contradicted yourself bc you know it needs to be later and you admit your kids slept till 11:30. Your time to fo your hair does not correlate to a study in the biology of teen sleep patterns.

I was only pointing out that though her body might want to sleep til 11:30, she does fine when forced to wake up much earlier. She doesn’t get home til nearly 5 pm most days. She’s cheerful and doing well in school. Her phone shuts off at 9 pm, so if yours are having trouble, maybe try that.

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Anonymous wrote:If they changed the start time for HS where I work, teens would leave school early to pick up their younger siblings. I'd say 60-70% of my kindergarten students are picked up by their MS and HS siblings.

Because they can. Schools would adjust.

At least 60% of families in your class have children who are in kindergarten and in MS or HS (5 or more year age gap)?

If start times change, there will have to be a way to adjust. Assuming that you are talking able low-income families, having exhausted high school students assume responsibility for younger siblings hampers their academic progress (and furthers achievement gaps).

Also, do they not have buses at your school?

No buses except for special ed students. We have Hispanic families with tons of siblings of all ages in ES, MS and HS. It isn't unusual to have a sibling from the same family every 2-3 yrs. These families don't have the means for babysitters and the younger kids would just sit in the office after school if nobody could pick them up. There would be a lot of them there.

That is not a reason to start school at an early time for older kids.

Of course it is. It might not be a reason you find compelling, but "lots of our students have family obligations later in the day" is a reason to start them earlier.

Family obligations are not for teens nor should it been forced upon those who don’t have sibling to “raise.” You are wrong and not looking for what is appropriate for teens.

A time is going to be "forced" on people who don't want it regardless of what you choose and your decree that "family obligations are not for teens" doesn't make it so. Teenagers have been taking care of siblings and getting up at the dawn to work since civilization began. They were okay with both.

I don't care much which schedule they pick, but the idea that one schedule is "right" and one schedule is "wrong" is just myopic. Different students have different circumstances and every start time is going to be bad for some kids. I'm not sure why it's impossible for you to admit that, but that's the truth.

I’m not sure why it’s impossible for you to justify punishing all teens because some have to babysit, ignoring the fact of ALL of their biological clocks.

How about the ones who have early morning jobs, or farm chores, or swim/hockey/skating practice, or elder care duties, or pet care duties, or food prep duties, or water hauling duties, or the million other things that teens around the world wake up early to do every day?

What the AAP actually recommends is that kids get enough sleep. For teens, 8-10 hours. They do suggest an 8:30 start time for schools, but they also say, "If schools start earlier, parents should make sure their children go to bed early enough to get the recommended amount of sleep...." so, the AAP knows an early start time isn't possible for everyone.

The fact that you use the word "punishing" suggests that you are not of a rational mind about this issue though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This start time is pretty typical everywhere. DC is the anomaly, and I love it for my kids.

Loudoun also has a reversed schedule. Our local highschool starts at 9:30am. The local elementary bus picks up the kids at 6:30am (which is ridiculous imo) and the school day (elem) starts at 7:15am.

The highschoolers don't get out of school until close to 4:30pm (4:20ish), then don't get home until close to 5:00pm. From what I've heard, those that do sports/activities/etc. and are academically motivated wind up going to bed after midnight by the time they fit in all of their commitments and homework. So the lack of sleep can be the same as those with an early schedule, just shifted.

If HSers want to do sports, they should be the ones waking up early to practice before school starts. Swimmers do it.

Why should all HSers suffer an early start time because some HSers want to play sports?

It's not the devices. My teens are off their device before 11pm. The 14 yr old goes to bed around 9:30ish. The 17 yr old told me that it doesn't matter if they go to bed early or not - whether 10pm or midnight.. they have a hard time getting up early. DC said most of the kids in first period are still half alseep. I'm betting if they pushed the start time later, a lot of kids grades would improve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

this is American BS. Teenage Humans around the world manage to get up early to go to school, work etc…. They go to bed earlier. Common denominator in the US is social media/screens and teens.

DH's HS school started at 9.. in the uK. They still do, I think.

CA just passed a law that HS cannot start earlier than 8:30.

The only countries that force kids to start early are those that are either 1. insane about education like China 2. it's too hot in the afternoon, like Brazil.

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Anonymous wrote:It is also INSANE that some elementary schools end at 3:50. The board is so behind the times.

I have this end time and mentioned it to a teacher friend across the country (elementary) (they start at 7:40 and end at 2:35) NORMAL... What kid is getting home at nearly 5 pm? Just MoCo... Yes, later start times for older kids but most elementary kids are already awake. The board is so out of touch with reality.

You’re out of touch with reality. School district I’m in starts high school at 9:15 and is ranked nationally as the the second top school district in the country and consistently in the top 5.

Lol, not the OP...and you're just...how do i say Stupid nicely?

Youre an idiot.

NP-Says the one who doesn’t know elementary punctuation.

Aww, bc the poster used a capital S to emphasize your own stupidity? They didnt use an apostrophe bc functioning adults understand? But yoooou win! (those extra letters mean emphasis, bc clearly you dont understand)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s fine. They adjust.

No the don’t. Their circadian clock doesn’t adjust.

Its funny how the need to be at a job just a few years later makes it ok.

How many people have to be at work at 7:45 AM 5 days a week?

Many in the transportation industry starts earlier than that. That includes your Drivers, conductors, mechanics, station managers, track repair staff, managers, and more. The. There are those in all sectors of health care, those in construction, those in the trades, those who deliver your Amazon packages, and so many more. 7:45 really isn’t that early for the working world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is also INSANE that some elementary schools end at 3:50. The board is so behind the times.

I have this end time and mentioned it to a teacher friend across the country (elementary) (they start at 7:40 and end at 2:35) NORMAL... What kid is getting home at nearly 5 pm? Just MoCo... Yes, later start times for older kids but most elementary kids are already awake. The board is so out of touch with reality.

Not just MCPSS. My kids in Howard County started at 9:24 a.m and got home around 4:20 p.m. on the bus. To say that I hated that arrangement is a massive understatement. The kids were up well before 7:00 a.m. and it was hard to use that extra time in a productive was. I mean playing outside at 7:00 a.m. isn't really a thing.

It's fine. Much ado about nothing.

Anonymous wrote:It is also INSANE that some elementary schools end at 3:50. The board is so behind the times.

I have this end time and mentioned it to a teacher friend across the country (elementary) (they start at 7:40 and end at 2:35) NORMAL... What kid is getting home at nearly 5 pm? Just MoCo... Yes, later start times for older kids but most elementary kids are already awake. The board is so out of touch with reality.